NickS Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Alright, I'm sick of playing the villain role in these 103 weight class discussions so I'm starting something new. Obviously, wrestlling fans enjoy the sport how it is. But the big issue is with the fringe fans. How do we get them interested in wrestling? How do we get the channel surfer to stop at a wrestling match on tv? Use this thread to brainstorm, and hopefully we can get some good ideas to talk and debate about. I'll start with making wrestling more of an offensive-minded style. From what I've witnessed the last few years, wrestling has become very defensive. You don't see many Andrew Howes' or Brent Metcalfs' of the college ranks. So how do you encourage this style of wrestling they possess? Well I would advocate changing the scoring system. Some of these ideas sound freestylish, but I feel folkstyle could benefit from them. Different levels of takedowns should be worth different amounts of points. 2 Point Takedown - A takedown in which your opponent is already on his knees and you spin behind (either by a snap down or blocking a shot attempt) 3 Point Takedown - A takedown in which you force your opponent to leave his feet to the mat (doubles, singles, high crotches) 4 Point Takedown - A takedown in which you force your opponent to leave his feet to his back, regardless if you get nearfall points (throws, fireman's carries) Obviously doubles and singles could be 4 point moves if you put your opponent to his back, I'm just speaking hypothetically. I have more ideas, but want other people to chime in and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
former130 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I think the stalling calls need to be enforced. Make both wrestlers go after it. I have told my son that I would rather him .get caught and pinned trying to do something than to win stalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 Here's an idea. Replace stalling with the old freestyle passivity call. The wrestler that forces a passivity call gets reward with a "leg clinch" situation, a lot like with how freestyle is with it's overtimes. No warnings, "leg clinch" after the first call. I think wrestlers get around stalling as a strategic element, knowing they'll only give up a warning then just 1 point. But if you force them into a "leg clinch," they could give up a 4 point takedown (under my takedown system). Much more penalization potential for not being aggressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
former130 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I think that would definately force some action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-train Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 we should have chicks in bikinis carry signs between periods. 8) : :-* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 we should have chicks in bikinis carry signs between periods. 8) : :-* And big hairy men wanting to throw an elbow drop...The folkstyle point system is just fine, and the freestyle point system is just where it needs to be. F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 How about the NCAA out of bounds rule, that would mean less line wrestling and fewer out of bounds calls thus creating more action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 The folkstyle point system is just fine I disagree because I think aggression should get heavier reward. Blocking a shot and spin-behind shouldn't be the equivalent to someone initiating a blast double or high crotch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMAWRESTLER Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 The folkstyle point system is just fine I disagree because I think aggression should get heavier reward. Blocking a shot and spin-behind shouldn't be the equivalent to someone initiating a blast double or high crotch. I can say that for once I agree with wcs145. Wrestlers have different styles, some are offensive and some are deffensive. Both styles are exciting to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 I can say that for once I agree with wcs145. Wrestlers have different styles, some are offensive and some are deffensive. Both styles are exciting to watch. Hook me up with a wahoo. My cool points are starting to make me sweat. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 Something else I would consider is limiting the amount of time spent in referee's position. After a takedown, top man should be given ample amount of time to work a turn. 15-20 seconds should suffice, after that they should be brought back to neutral position. Referee's position isn't a very entertaining part of wrestling in my opinion and after about 15 seconds, generally becomes a riding fest. Which is a glorified way of stalling if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scardy94 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 If you only give the top guy 15-20 seconds to turn the guy the bottom guy will just stahl for that amount of time. Sounding a lot like freestyle...not folkstyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-train Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I can say that for once I agree with wcs145. Wrestlers have different styles, some are offensive and some are deffensive. Both styles are exciting to watch. Hook me up with a wahoo. My cool points are starting to make me sweat. ;D no kidding, someone really doesn'n like you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 no kidding, someone really doesn'n like you! Geez, up to -23. Must be a negative point for every 103 lber in Indiana. ZING!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 If you only give the top guy 15-20 seconds to turn the guy the bottom guy will just stahl for that amount of time. Sounding a lot like freestyle...not folkstyle. So, hypothetically, bottom guy is losing in a match. Instead of working for an escape, he's just going to sit down there and stall? Makes sense. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scardy94 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Hypothetically he is winning by 2...it can go either way. U put the rule in of where they come up in 20 seconds 80% of the time he will stahl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 Hypothetically he is winning by 2...it can go either way. U put the rule in of where they come up in 20 seconds 80% of the time he will stahl. You make it sound like the bottom man wouldn't stall if he was up 2 points under the current rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinedad Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I think the stalling calls need to be enforced. Make both wrestlers go after it. I have told my son that I would rather him .get caught and pinned trying to do something than to win stalling. Ok, being devils advocate here, let me set the situation, then you let me know if you still want your son to not stall. Under the lights at conseco, having never made it to the finals, in his senior year, he is up 5-4 going into the 3rd period, and has chioce. He chooses down. He can either appear to be busy on bottom but not really try to get up, or he can hit it hard and get stuck on his back for a 2 or 3 point near fall while attempting an escape. Do you wish for him to give away a state title instead of wrestling smart and securing the win? I dont fault you for your thinking, I feel there is way to much stalling, and it should be called quicker, but sometimes stalling smart is a good tactic that should, and is used by quality wrestlers all over the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatChick76 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 There is a difference between defensive wrestling and stalling. I do agree that the stalling calls need to be called quicker. But, looking at what warrendad said, I would want my kid to circle & block that last period and to wrestle more defensively to keep the lead rather than going full throttle and getting caught. Of course, I'd much rather watch a full out aggressive match, but stalling and "wrestling smart" are two different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
former130 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Yea what matchick said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Personally I believe wrestling is interesting enough as is. I don't think rule changes to the scoring system are going to make people want to come out and watch it. I believe that the way to increase participation is to first, create good clubs that will feed directly into high schools (I know most h.s.'s are either doing this successfully or they are trying to, at the very least). The next thing that has to happen is that head football coaches and A.D.'s have to promote it to their athletes. My son attends a big h.s. and, tho the football team is fairly average, the kids are so committed to the program that when the season ends, they go directly into off season conditioning. We lost one very promising sophomore because he was afraid that, if he wrestled, he wouldn't be able to put on enough weight for the following football season. In my experience, football coaches pay lip service to the benefits of joining the wrestling team but they actually prefer to have their kids in the off season weight conditioning programs immediatley after the season ends. If a position paper could be developed that would show kids are actually better football players when they wrestle during the off season, I believe that would go a long way to increasing participation. The sport needs more athletes. If the BMOC's join the team, then crowds will follow. I also think that, for the last 15 years or so, most kids join one sport and concentrate on it solely. That is also a major hurdle to overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I happen to agree. I watched some of the Olympic qualifying matches, and the elite freestyle was pretty tough to watch. Same as collegiate wrestling is less exciting than high school, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booker T Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Ok, being devils advocate here, let me set the situation, then you let me know if you still want your son to not stall. Under the lights at conseco, having never made it to the finals, in his senior year, he is up 5-4 going into the 3rd period, and has chioce. He chooses down. He can either appear to be busy on bottom but not really try to get up, or he can hit it hard and get stuck on his back for a 2 or 3 point near fall while attempting an escape. Do you wish for him to give away a state title instead of wrestling smart and securing the win? I would argue that your son has a much bigger chance getting put on his back if he's just hanging out on bottom and letting a guy crank on him rather than actually trying to get away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroyleahcim Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 the A.D. and the school needs to promote it more like they do with basketball, football, volleyball, baseball and so on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinedad Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Ok, being devils advocate here, let me set the situation, then you let me know if you still want your son to not stall. Under the lights at conseco, having never made it to the finals, in his senior year, he is up 5-4 going into the 3rd period, and has chioce. He chooses down. He can either appear to be busy on bottom but not really try to get up, or he can hit it hard and get stuck on his back for a 2 or 3 point near fall while attempting an escape. Do you wish for him to give away a state title instead of wrestling smart and securing the win? I would argue that your son has a much bigger chance getting put on his back if he's just hanging out on bottom and letting a guy crank on him rather than actually trying to get away That depends on who is on top and how their style compares to his. In certain situations you are right, in others not so much. I have seen kids that can turn my son, and I have seen kids that cant. I am not arguing either way, Just saying that sometimes stalling is a good tactic up until the point the ref hits you with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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