Y2CJ41 Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Check out the pound for pound rankings from the IndianaMat.com team. This is a cumulative effort from many of the contributors to the forum. Feel free to compliment, complain or enjoy the rankings. We will probably update them every week or two depending on big matches that happen. http://www.indianamat.com/?p=61 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontherise219 Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Ontherise219 top 10 Pound for pound 1. Josh Harper- Mishawaka SR 3x champ 1 losses in 3 years 2. Brandon Wright- Cathedral JR 2nd Champ 3. Cashe Quiroga- Lawrence North SR SQ, 2nd Champ 4. Sean McMurray- Portage JR 7th, Champ 5. Steven Sandefur- Mishawaka SR SQ, 5th, Champ 6. Ethan Raley- Indian Creek SO Champ Unbeaten in high school 7. Eric Roach- Crown Point SO 2nd 8. Taylor March East Noble SR 2nd, 2nd 3rd 9. Camden Eppert- Anderson Highland SR 4th 1st 2nd 10. Adam Chalfant- Winchester SR 7th, 2nd Honorable Mention Briar Runyan- Martinsville 3rd 2nd Jason Tsirtsis- Crown Point FR Michael Duckworth- Union County JR 2nd Frankie Porras- Hobart JR SQ 2nd Marcus Shrewsbury- Crown Point SR 7th, 2nd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 6, 2008 Author Share Posted December 6, 2008 The thing we were talking about is how to rank, national vs. state success. Harper's 3 titles are unmatched, but how does that compare to Eppert's 2 AA honors at Fargo or Wright winning Fargo? My experience is the national success will supersede state success. I had a 2X regional qualifier get a letter from IU this fall because he placed at Fargo this summer. My state qualifier didn't get anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 But does that make that wrestler the best pound 4 pound? I think style, technique, flair ;D all could factor in to someones definition of best pound for pound. Example, the heavyweight from Mt. Vernon a few years back that launched Larimore would have made my pound for pound list and I don't know if he ever wrestled a national level or college match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontherise219 Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 The thing we were talking about is how to rank, national vs. state success. Harper's 3 titles are unmatched, but how does that compare to Eppert's 2 AA honors at Fargo or Wright winning Fargo? My experience is the national success will supersede state success. I had a 2X regional qualifier get a letter from IU this fall because he placed at Fargo this summer. My state qualifier didn't get anything. I ranked Harper 1 because of his 3x and he beat Cashe 2 times last season 10-8 and by Fall. I also added Raley who hasn't been beat yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 6, 2008 Author Share Posted December 6, 2008 flair ;D Wooooooo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Pound for pound means who is the best wrestler in the state. Some wrestlers, Sandefur and Chalfant as examples, did not even wrestle in the offseason. I think I looked at it as state credentials, their wrestling history and if they are someone that I would run to the mat to watch when I heard their name called. I did have Harper first, because I believee he has earned it. I can understand the rationale for placing him lower if you place stock in national events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 flair ;D Wooooooo! "To be the man, you gotta beat the man" "Jet flying, limousine riding" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 "You don't need to go to Disney World to take a ride on Space Mountain" Were getting off track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busstogate Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 "You don't need to go to Disney World to take a ride on Space Mountain" Were getting off track Now, we go to school! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Brigade Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Eppert also placed at the prestigious Super32 this summer. Sandefer did wrestle at Scholastic Duals this summer. He did pretty well, but was not one of the top guys on Indiana Gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy74 Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Hey Y2, Could you give a little more explanation as to how these are determined. Is this a new super top secret formula? How do you rate Fargo Junior success vs Fargo Cadet success? How do you rate Greco vs FS success as pertaining to their folkstyle wrestling abilities? How do tournaments like Super 32 and Virginia Beach Nationals factor into it? How does participation in events like Brute Scholastic Duals and Team Indiana FS teams and stuff factor into it? Is there any way to factor in the difficulty of the weight class when considering previous state champs and placers from different weight classes? Just wondering. It seems like it is a pretty tough job. I don't agree with the style and flair points that Karl Hungus brought up though. I think it should be solely based on how tough the kid is to beat. As an example, I wouldn't have given Andrew Howe a ton of flair points, but I am sure that he would have been at the top of everyone's list last year had it existed. Anyways, thanks to you and the crew for putting this together. It makes for an interesting discussion. I am not saying that Quiroga does not deserve to be at the top of the list, but I think that he went 4-2 last year at Fargo and DNP. He took 7th at Virginia Beach Junior Nationals. However, I think that he had an undefeated showing for Team Indiana Gold at the Brute scholastic duals though. Harper is a 3X state champ with 1 loss in high school, but DNP at Virginia Beach Junior Nationals. How do you sort it all out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 6, 2008 Author Share Posted December 6, 2008 We surveyed five people with their top 10 and then assigned points based on how people ranked them. We'll probably add some more opinions in the next couple weeks, this was just a starter set. Plus after meets like the Triacoff and Al Smith you will have some in season results to go off of also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirate wrestling Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 This is a nice addition to the site. My personal opinion is that I would not rank a wrestler that has not won an individual high school state title very high, especially this early in the season. The top five could probably be in ranked in a few different orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 This is a nice addition to the site. My personal opinion is that I would not rank a wrestler that has not won an individual high school state title very high, especially this early in the season. The top five could probably be in ranked in a few different orders. How would you rank them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 7, 2008 Author Share Posted December 7, 2008 This is a nice addition to the site. My personal opinion is that I would not rank a wrestler that has not won an individual high school state title very high, especially this early in the season. The top five could probably be in ranked in a few different orders. So you would rank national success behind in-state success? I guess it is where you put your priorities. Neither is wrong, but I'll put national credentials over state any day of the week. To a college coach placing at a national tournament such as Fargo, NHSCA Nationals, the Super 32, etc weighs heavier than winning a state title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirate wrestling Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 My top factor would be high school and folkstyle national tournaments. Next would be national freestyle tournaments. Here is my quick list without doing to much research. This is a nice topic with some interesting conversation. 1. Harper 2. Quiroga 3. Sandefur 4. McMurray 5. Raley 6. Wright 7. Eppert 8. March 9. Roach 10. Porras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirate wrestling Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 I would rank state and national folkstyle above freestyle. although I know as many, if not more college coaches probably attend fargo. this could get a little complicated especially if start to rank national tournaments. not an easy job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midget5589 Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 flair ;D Wooooooo! "To be the man, you gotta beat the man" "Jet flying, limousine riding" i wonder if theres a professional "wrestling" chat board thingy like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Brigade Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 1. Anthony Wright, Cath--hard to top his combo of HS career and the summer he just had. Other than the loss in FS to Tsirtsis, he's been pretty untouchable for about a year. 2. Christopher Quiroga, LN--Last year's state champ at 119 and a runner-up to Harper the year before. Cashe had a masterful summer, beating Iowa stud Joe Colon and many others en route to placing 7th at Junior Nat's and a very successful performance at National Duals, where he went undefeated and beat NJ state champ Biscaha. 3. Josh Harper, Mishawaka--3X state champ and counting. Has just missed placing at numerous national events the past couple of years. One match away from placement at Junior Nat's. Seems to have Quiroga's number, but Cashe gets the slight nod based on superior national results. 4. Camden Eppert, AH--he's been in the trenches of the big tourneys for what seems like an eternity, and he's always good for a placement or near placement. Had an outstanding Super32 tourney this year, beating Cox of WY and placing. 5. Sean McMurray, Portage--A huge postseason last year led to a state title and seemed to propel him into a great summer on the Indiana Gold team and at Soph. Nat's. (7th place, lost to 1st and 3rd place finishers) 6. Marcus Shrewsbury, CP--Has had a lot of national success, including a runner-up finish at Jr. Nat's and will be favored to win a state title this year 7. Eric Roach, CP--An outstanding debut as a freshman led to a state runner-up award. He followed it up with a Freshman Nationals title, outscoring his opponents 61-11. 8. Michael Duckworth, Union County--Made a great run to the finals last year at State, also had a very nice summer as runner-up at Soph. Nationals 9. Adam Chalfant, Winchester--getting a lot of national attention. Odds on favorite to win at HWT and a phenomenal athlete 10. Frankie Porras, Hobart--One of many Indiana kids who had a great summer, Porras finished a strong second in last year's state finals and followed it up with a 5th place finish at Soph Nat's. 11. Ethan Raley-Indian Creek--State champ last year at 103. 12. Taylor March, East Noble--A perennial contender, he has been the Hard-Luck Kid during his HS career, finishing 2nd twice and third once 13. Brandon Nelson--2X high placer at state finals, 4th place at Soph. Nat's. Has had many successful national outcomes, including going 6-0 at Junior National Duals Greco Tourney. 14. Anthony Hawkins-4th place in-state, losing to Brandon Nelson in 3rd place match, finished 3rd at Soph Nat's, beating Nelson. 15. Justin Brooks, Warsaw--3X placer, some substantial national results as well. Nationally ranked by some organizations. Just missed: Jason Tsirtsis, Steve Sandefer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanMcMurray Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 My pound for pound... 1. Josh Harper 2. Brandon Wright 3. Cashe Quiroga 4. Frankie Porras 5. Steven Sandefer 6. Jason Tsirtsis 7. Johnny Dillon 8. Eric Roach 9. Braden Atwood 10. Camden Eppert These kids are all studs and all class acts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianawrestler09 Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 dingo.. raley didnt wrestle at the scholastic duals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 My pound for pound... 1. Josh Harper 2. Brandon Wright 3. Cashe Quiroga 4. Frankie Porras 5. Steven Sandefer 6. Jason Tsirtsis 7. Johnny Dillon 8. Eric Roach 9. Braden Atwood 10. Camden Eppert These kids are all studs and all class acts. Did you purposely leave yourself out because you are modest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanMcMurray Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 My pound for pound... 1. Josh Harper 2. Brandon Wright 3. Cashe Quiroga 4. Frankie Porras 5. Steven Sandefer 6. Jason Tsirtsis 7. Johnny Dillon 8. Eric Roach 9. Braden Atwood 10. Camden Eppert These kids are all studs and all class acts. Did you purposely leave yourself out because you are modest? Haha. I don't feel the need to include myself. A biased opinion means as much to me as basketball does. p.s. i hate basketball! ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
army197 Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 1 harper- one loss in high school career. three time high school state champ his wrestling style might be different but he does win! 2 quiroga- dominated last year at state lost to harper twice but did bump up to wrestle him which is quite impresive to take on the best. 3 wright- this kid has done alot second, first, fargo national champ whats more to say. 4 mcmurray- yes he is my brother but 7th as a fresh 1st as a sophmore against a two timer. had a great offseason at scholastics duals fargo and high nationals. 5 roach- he dominated most last year second at 130. had just an absolutly great off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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