grecoref

So your kid chose to spend the extra money. He wasn't forced to do it by the ISWA or FBI or some other covert organization.

In all the threads and all the complaints, I don't recall seeing your solution to all of this. What say you Y2?

South Bend

Franklin- which required a hotel

State- which requires a hotel for two nights

 

Easily dropping $500+ on freestyle season. 

Penn's qualifier was the same date as Franklin's. He could have saved the price of a hotel and the extra food and gas.

Your kid spent $500 for 2 qualifiers? Where the heck did he go?

And volunteers like me are losing their interest.

If there is no requirement for qualifying then how do you suggest we get kids to wrestle in local events? Why would a club want to host an event if there wasn't a requirement to participate?

Ohio has a requirement to compete in their State Finals. Illinois does not. Illinois had about 650 for their State Greco last week and over 950 for FS this weekend. Both states have a petition process to make the trip to Fargo.

I am thinking something like this...

Wrestle in a USAW National or Regional event prior to the State Final regardless of style, counts as a one event waiver

Extend the season and require 2 events. See above for the waiver

Place Top 3 in a local event-automatic qualify

All American in FS or GR previous year-automatic qualify.

Injury waiver-only if on Physician's Letterhead and must be out for 2 weeks or more.

Coach Hull already mentioned that very few of his kids needed an additional "qualifier."  I coach at Perry and that is the same for us.  We had 80 some kids from our club wrestle in our freestyle tourney.  I believe we had about 50 wrestle at Warren's freestyle/Greco.  I haven't looked, but I would guess we will have around the same wrestle at Franklin this Saturday.  I was there at Warren's phantom 3-way.  Coach Hull is a little off.  The number was more like 160.  We put kids in groups of 4 and had a round robin.  Aside from a running clock there wasn't much different from a Saturday tourney.  There were high school kids officiating along with 3 blue shirt "pros."  We had parents mad because the score was wrong, coaches telling parents to let them coach, etc.  It was great.  Our club had talked about doing something similar as a fundraiser. 

 

I understand that most of the people upset aren't lucky enough to have 3 tournaments close(Perry, Warren, Franklin for us), so it seems like this was just done to help kids qualify for state.  We talked about putting some duals together after seeing some of the dual tournies on the weekend. 

 

Coach Richardson

PM

I really wish I would have been able to work this. Since my divorce 8 years ago I kind of miss being screamed at in the middle of the week.

The ISWA screwed up last year by allowing indiscriminate waivers at the last minute after many families had made sacrifices trying to to play by the rules.

 

The ISWA screwed up this year by being petulant and not offering any waivers.

 

Passive aggressiveness and blame shifting is not much more productive than bitching

That was my point. Stop the bitching and start doing.

Grecoref,

I get there is tons of 'national tournaments' most are just local tournaments that let surrounding states enter them. I am referring directly about ISWA's Nationsl tournament USA Nationals. I am also referring to ISWA national dual teams that they run for middle school and elementary. My main complaint was that anyone of these events should have appeased a 1 tournament exemption.

 

Nick-

Going to these events and doing well opens up the eyes to everyone that is there. I am not stating that top colleges coaches are there, but everyone who is there is starting to take notice of Indiana. Also I have seen brands brothers at Celtic elite in tournament in IL and at USA nationals. Either way my only point was why are kids that are wrestling every weekend getting hurt by this rule. Also we can't wait for Fargo, it's a shame we can't compete in the schoolboy duals.

I agree ISWA National Team Members should get a 1 event waiver. In fact, I wrote a formal proposal to the ISWA this year suggesting that.

Here is what I am understanding from all of this.....

The ISWA screwed up last year by allowing waivers!

The ISWA screwed up this year by not allowing waivers!

The qualifier requirement is a good thing!

The qualifier requirement is a bad thing!

Our kids should not be penalized for wrestling in a "National" Tournament (one of the 176 "National" Tournaments currently being conducted)

Our kids should wrestle FS/GR and not Folkstyle if they want to compete in Fargo!

If you don't agree with the poster then something is wrong with you!

If you want to express your opinion to the ISWA, attend a meeting, email them or call them.

If the ISWA was concerned about our opinions they would read this message board.

Lastly, what I really get out of this is the people who are passionate about our sport can't agree what is best for the sport. Maybe, just maybe, we should stop trying to prove "my idea is the best" and start working together to get this right before it's too late.

I have seen organizations split. I am old enough to remember the AAU/USWF battles. Good people on both sides were lost because they couldn't work together. Don't allow that to happen here.

According to the ISWA website, "Weigh-ins and skin checks are required for all sanctioned local tournaments." I don't see anything on the info sheets from the participating teams about weigh-ins. Usually when you advertise an event for the kids you mention weigh-in times.

 

Secondly the event is 2 hours split up for K-6 for an hour and 6-12 for an hour.  This is being held in the Warren wrestling room. I'm not sure how big it is, but an hour means very few matches.

 

Running an event for an hour and calling it a qualifier is skirting the "rules" no matter how hard you try to do it. My kids tonight will go for an hour and a half of good hard wrestling, yet we can't call it a qualifier. However they can go to something like this and maybe be on the mat for 10 minutes and call it a qualifier. 

 

I already know of others looking to do one of these "last chance" qualifiers for state. You'll see these pop up everywhere and they'll be shady as can be.

I agree that all requirements should be met for any sanctioned event.

I would think you could wrestle 3 matches in an hour if it were organized properly. I was at Warren on Saturday and they had about 450 kids. We started about 9:30 and we were done around 3:00. That's pretty organized.

The issue is several wrestlers/families have spent vacation time/money to attend events that were on a schedule that was on the ISWA website because there was no indication there would be any other way to get the 2 mandated qualifiers in. Now, similar to last years waiver debacle, 2 weeks before the state tourney there has become a new/unpublicized/EASIER/MORE CONVENIENT way to qualify. It's great it's happening, just like it was great waivers were allowed last year. The issue is putting out parameters then changing them midstream with no notice. It makes those who have followed the parameters quite upset. "Finding a way..." is great, but it shouldn't have to be found...it should be set forth as an option in the beginning. Fairness to all participants seems to be the issue.

I couldn't agree more that "it shouldn't have to be found."

Being fair is important to me as well. If I thought for on minute this was not fair I would be taking the opposite stance.

Perhaps someone can help me understand something. I am by far not the sharpest pencil in the box.

Last year the ISWA said no waivers for Freestyle State and then the week of the event they retracted that policy and allowed waivers. I agree that was handled poorly. This year the ISWA again states no waivers. I have been told by the ISWA State Chairman and other Board Members that they are standing firm with no waivers and will not bend whatsoever. I don't agree with that, but that's the way it is.

Now we have a few folks finding a way to give more athletes an opportunity to compete by hosting an event and people are opposed to that. If they sanction the event through the ISWA/USAW what is the problem?  It's an option we didn't have a week ago.

I really don't understand the issue.

Kudos to those who are thinking outside the box!

Krulik will help you...if he's not climbing rocks or shooting something.

My luck he would try to field dress me and take a photo with the carcass

Word on the street is you might make a guest appearance at dub c this weekend. Tom, I'm not giving you mouth to mouth if you fall out but Morgan has you so you will be fine.

Seriously. Glad to hear you are ok.

It's in my living will that I have a DNR if Morgan is the only resource for CPR.

Maybe Adeline Gray should be held out too. She doesn't even get scored on during the trials. 

Excellent point!

Some of them are also communist countries.....

 

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Like Italy for example

I disagree.  How would we know someone like Alex Dieringer wasn't ready? What if he showed up and blitzed Burroughs twice? Obviously that didn't happen, but he deserved an opportunity. 

 

So based on this criteria of people getting elected, J'Den Cox doesn't make the team because he wouldn't have enough points? This all seems so silly.  

Alex Dieringer is not the current World or Olympic Champion. Jordan Burroughs is and to date has lost 2 international matches in his career. Burroughs would be my only automatic pick.

As of Sunday evening, J'Den Cox does not posses a US Passport. He can get one in a day or so, no problem.

There is NO comparison to Jordan Burroughs success with anyone else on our current Olympic Team.

I am by no means selling any of our other athletes short. Those who made and those who didn't. Again, I am saying until things change a guy like Burroughs should get a free pass. The other countries do it without hesitation.

 

Also, calling an athlete on the Olympic wrestling team a "member" understates the significance of the accomplishment.  For all intents and purposes, they're the United States champion. 

I would never understate the significance of participating in the Olympic Games.

How do you determine who is the "best" guy?  I was always under the impression that head to head was the best criteria? It is crazy to me how subjective criteria is being suggested in a sport beloved for its objective nature. 

 

Also, calling an athlete on the Olympic wrestling team a "member" understates the significance of the accomplishment.  For all intents and purposes, they're the United States champion. 

I would say that a wrestler like Jordan Burroughs who continues to win championships both internationally and domestically is clearly our best guy right now. Two of the greatest wrestlers in NCAA history went up a weight to stay away from him. My opinion, is he should have been named to the team.  I'm not saying we should name an athlete for every weight just an individual like this who is clearly above the rest of the competition and has proven himself on the world level by winning championships.

At the 1992 Trials John Smith came dangerously close to losing to John Fisher in the final wrestle off. Smith had been battling a staph infection and Fisher was good and came close to beating him. Fisher was an excellent wrestler and an even better guy, but would not have won a gold medal in Barcelona as we all know Smith did.

Wasn't Hump, Scott, and somebody else involved in a special wrestle off during the last Olympic cycle?

 

And didn't somebody get a clause to wrestle off James Green for spot on World Team b/c they missed weight?

Yes to the 2012 question.

Not exactly to the second question. Marable didn't "miss weight"...he just didn't weigh in. He got a medical exemption because a Doctor signed off on it.

There have been others as well that involved litigation. The Seracki-Lindland   match that was ordered to be rewrestled in 2000 is just an example. I was asked to be one of the referees for the rewrestle but I refused to go because I didn't agree with the litigation.

Well said.  Particularly for well-established wrestlers heading into their late 20s or 30s where excessive wear/tear inflicts needless injuries.

 

I've talked to a number of folks over the years about the points-over-series protocol.  Like Y2, I too have pondered the if "The One Day Wonder" is really the best method.  Let's say Burroughs had the flu this weekend; USAW wouldn't have tolerated allowing another to grab his spot due to illness or injury imop.  So it seems like the one day champ could really be overturned anyway given a specific set of circumstances.

 

The points-series model is nice.  Provides some additional protection.  But the rules would need to be crafted very carefully.  Otherwise, a wrestler who consistently finishes in 3rd place at tournaments over the series, but never actually wins a single tournament, could end up as the Olympic representative due to obtaining the most points.  

There have been injury exceptions in the past, but only if it was the number 1 guy. The only exception was the 1984 Trials.

Let's have a vote after semi-state next year to crown our individual state champs.  That should be enough data to properly elect the best guy. 

Nobody is picking a champion, just a team member. Why not put the guy who has the best chance of winning on the mat?

I can guarantee you that if most countries had a guy like Burroughs he would not have had to wrestle-off, he would just be on the team.  I can tell you guys like Satiev, Belaglozlov, Fadziev, etc..., NEVER wrestled-off for a spot on their team once they were established.

I had some severe back spasms going from my lower back all the way up to my neck. The spasms caused very intense pain and my back and neck "locked up". I owed it to the both Robbie Smith and Adam Coon to take myself out of the match. They have worked most of their lives to make the Olympic Team and I was not any where near being able to be my best.

The medical staff checked me for cardiac and stroke issues and they were right on top of it. When they were sure it wasn't something life threatening they took me to the training room. When the Iowa Wrestling Trainer examines you and says "Oh, you have a big problem here" you know something is wrong. 

Once it was determined that I was going to live, my fellow referees made remarks such as "He couldn't have a heart attack, that is anatomically impossible. He doesn't have a heart." "We took a poll to see who was going to give you CPR and we stopped when were 0 for 7."  Which is exactly the kind of thing I would have said.

I'm ok now but will make an appointment with my Doctor very soon.

Thanks for the concern.

Tom Clark

Trials not Trails....I blame spellcheck.