RAJR

I was thinking people just constantly boo at these class finals and chant "we want a true champ." But for some crazy reason they are cheering a watered down, travesty of a state tournament. I am completely befuddled.

The school size does matter for individuals. I coach at Tecumseh. We are a small school with 282 students. Around half of those are boys. On my team this year we had a forfeit at 113. In the entire school there were just three boys that were small enough to wrestle 113. One of them was my 106. Another was my 120. He could have cut to 113 if his parents signed the paperwork for the weight control program. Then I would have had a forfeit at 120. The only other boy in the school who could have been 113 is on the swimming team. My 106 was a first year wrestler who moved into the school this year. Now I will compare that to Castle because they are nearby and I saw their JV team at a few tournaments. Castle has 1861 students. IF I remember right they had around 4 106 pound wrestlers this year. I don't know how many 113s they had. My 106 has to practice with our 120 or 126. He gets a lot out of it because those guys have been wrestling awhile and can teach him alot. The problem is that the guy wrestling him gets very little out of the time they are practicing with the 106 because they are so much better. I like the effort I get from our 106 and I think he will turn out to be a good wrestler in time. Right now as a practice partner he is not a positive. The 120 and 126 can do anything they want at anytime and he cannot stop them.  Castle on the other hand has several guys at each weight so they can find a good practice partner for all of their varsity guys. 

There is absolutely no logic here.  The Penn kid has another state qualifier and probably two that he trains with.  To not admit this as an advantage is laughable.

I was referring to the fact that our relay team is at a disadvantage...that is why I used it as my example.  Numbers are an advantage for both teams and individuals.

Because those were four of the ten girls on the team.  Because winning a state title would have rattled the cages of a lot of other girls roaming the halls who know they are as athletic as some of the girls on that team.  Because if numbers continue the way they are, there won't be a track team at all any more. 
 
Why does the 1A All-State football team deserve recognition?
 
Why does the Division II college tennis champion deserve recognition?
 
Why does the champion of a small-school conference deserve recognition?
 
Why does eighth place at state (ninth for track) deserve recognition?
 
If you aren't better than EVERYONE then why should you deserve recognition for anything? 

I'll add to the whining by telling another story.  Last spring I coached a girls 4x100 meter relay team that finished 19th in the state out of 27.  Our time was the fastest in the history of the state for a school under 500 students from the research that I have done.  I know its crazy to think that those 4 girls deserve a little more recognition than to say they got 19th out of 27.  Track, much like swimming and wrestling is not in a healthy condition at smaller schools.

Because I want to give out more awards and give some more deserving kids recognition. I understand it waters everything down, but I really don't care.

Here is more information for you even though it will prove NOTHING because you can't fathom bigger schools having any advantages
 
Qualifiers
1A 43 or 19.2%
2A 181 or 80.8%
 
Placers
1A 13 or 11.6%
2A 99 or 88.4%
 
Student population %
1A 23%
2A 77%

I don't usually get into many discussions on here, especially about class wrestling. I just feel like we are too divided and no matter how I express my point, I'm never going to convince those that believe "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I for one love our individual state finals and I really enjoyed our experience at team state this year. But...our individual finals is broken. When you have the disparity we have in SQ and place winners that we have, something is wrong.
 
I'll give you an example that is not wrestling related. My daughter qualified with her 200 relay team for the swim state finals this year. She's a fine swimmer and works her tail off, so did her teammates! They were seeded 32 and finished 29th. Rochester was the smallest school represented at state in ANY events! Twin Lakes was the second smallest. Everyone one else were 4A and 5A schools. If it was classed my daughter and her team would have been state champs in the 200 free relay. No other times from small schools were even close. They, our school, and her mom and I would have been just fine with that because they put in the work to be that good. The issue is we don't have the same resources that the Carmels, Penns, etc have. We just don't. That's not a matter of opinion...its a fact because I live it. We provide her with every opportunity we can but we can't provide her with what the Carmel Swim club can provide its' kids. If you think sports like wrestling and swimming shouldn't be classed, then you just dont get it or you don't care to.
 
Tomorrow Rochester will play Tippy Valley for the class 2A semi state bball title and I'll bet anyone we have more fans in attendance for the little ole 2A game then you will for any other game in the state. Over 5,000 tickets have been pre sold and they are not sure there will be enough parking at Warsaw HS (5A) school. Class all sports, give the small schools a chance to build their brand, and I think you'll see some great stuff happen in Indiana Wrestling. As an association we can get this done if we get on the same page!!

Lol...still am. 2 day event. Started at 10am this morning. The team race is tight. Kids, coaches, and teams are fighting for everything. Great celebrations, disappointing heartbreak...the whole thing you'd expect from a great wrestling event. Guys I'm telling you right now, that Rocky Burkett and the Aberdeen Central Eagles don't give two craps that this is a classed event. They want to win their 2nd state title! Its a great venue. Very similar to bankers life...I'm enjoying life in a suite as I type this. Fans are great and into following their teams.

Tyler Ferguson was out all year with a compression fracture in his L2 and L3 lumbar.  Didnt know if he was going to be able to come back or not.  That kid went through alot of rehab to come back. To do as well as he did speaks volumes of his charachter.  Injuries to anyone in the post season like Konrath and Stevenson are unfortunate and especially to someone's senior year.  I am very proud to call him my son and glad he got to leave high school on a winning note.
 
S. Ferguson

Yeah, you don't want a suite. They are awful, forget about it.
 
BTW, anyone know of a suite for cheap next year?

Yeah, you don't want a suite. They are awful, forget about it.
 
BTW, anyone know of a suite for cheap next year?

Cash won. Definitely the better wrestler tonight. Great job. Interesting that Cash "caught" Lee, but Lee didn't "catch" James. Truth is.. All three are phenomenal wrestlers and deserved a state title today. Congrats to Cash, Lee, and James for tremendous seasons/careers!

Well..Bo will hate me for posting this, but I don't care.  I, my assistant coaches, the Garrett Community, his friends, and family are all extremely proud of him.  Bo has been an honor for the coaches at Garrett to coach.  He was a two time all state football player, valedictorian, and made two trips to state, including a 3rd place finish this year.
 
Bo was a very green wrestler as a freshman.  He had a losing record at 170 pounds.  This did not discourage Bo. Bo never missed offseason club, and certainly never missed any time in the weight room.  This season Bo did not win a sectional, regional, or semi state championship.  Most impressively, Bo wrestled a great match and beat the Al Smith Champion today in double overtime in the quarters.  What's most impressive about this is that Bo did not place at the Al Smith.  Bo overcame adversity and set his mind to winning a state championship.  Unfortunately, Bo did not win the state championship, but he certainly has set the bar high at Garrett and has been an outstanding role model for the Garrett School District.  
 
Bo will continue his wrestling career at Indiana Tech next fall.  We at Garrett could not be more proud of Bo Davis.
 
 
Coach Kraus-Coach Poppe-Coach Lanning-Coach Carunchia-Coach Schendel-Coach Brown
 

Was I the only one starting to sweat at 7:30 when college basketball was still on? Whew....

If Uncle Darrell had been treated by the IHSAA like other companies that broadcast, he would still be broadcasting the State Finals.
 
For Instance the Regulations governing broadcasting of IHSAA events clearly states: 
 
The following internet stations will not be granted permission to webcast from IHSAA
Tournament Series events:
( Subscription-based internet sites.
 
But Trackwrestling is allowed to charge a subscription fee?  Getting advertising dollars for wrestling is worse than pulling teeth.  Even though by far wrestling provides the largest audience of any sport that we ever broadcast.  Too bad we weren't allowed to let our fans help pay our broadcast expenses.
 
It's just another case of the powers-that-be changing the rules to suit their best interests, not the sport.  We used to do 2 sectionals, 2 regionals and 2 Semi-states in addition to the State Finals.  Now how many of those same events have live video coverage?
 
In our meetings with them, it was very obvious that the only events that are important to be covered is the Big Dance.  It's not important to promote the other athletes who don't quite get that far.
 
Although if we hadn't broadcasted the State Finals for 9 years in a row, do you think anyone would be broadcasting anything but the Final 14 matches?
 
Now that I have broken my arm patting our backs, I will sign off.

Nah, constant themes cutting weight, moves guys used to beat us, and always how tough our practices were. Everyone beat someone to get to regional, semi state, and state; only 14 end their career with a win. Respect for doing what we all had to do to compete has made the accolades less important and fellowship strong.
 
Do what ever we need to do to get more kids involved and 35 years after it is all over they will still be thanking and remembering their coaches!

Here is bracket data from the last 5 years of individual state championships:
 
Round 1:
 
#1's over #4's, 254-25 (91%...does not include #4 over #1 default last year)
On average, #1's go 51-5 against #4's each year
 
#2's over #3's, 175-105 (63%)
On average, #2's go 35-21 against #3's each year
 
Quarterfinals:
 
#1: 187-67 (74% quarterfinal win percentage; 67% of all #1's advance to semi-finals)
#2: 55-120 (31% quarterfinal win percentage; 20% of all #2's advance to semi-finals)
#3: 26-99 (25% quarterfinal win percentage; 9% of all #3's advance to semi-finals)
#4: 12-14 (46% quarterfinal win percentage; 4% of all #4's advance to semi-finals; includes QF loss by #4 seed first round default winner last year)
 
#1 vs. #2: 114-44 (72%)
#1 vs. #3: 73-23 (76%)
#2 vs. #4: 11-6 (65%)
#3 vs. #4: 3-6 (33%)
 
Semi-finals:
 
#1: Represent 113 out of 140 of the advancers to the finals (81%)
#2: 18-37 record (32% semi-final win percentage; represent 13% of the advancers to the finals)
#3: 7-19 record (27% semi-final win percentage; represent 5% of the advancers to the finals)
#4: 2-10 record (17% semi-final win percentage; represent 1% of the advancers to the finals)
 
Finals:
 
#1: 65 of the 70 champs--exactly 13 every year (93% of all champions)
#2: 5-13 record (28% finals win percentage; exactly 1 champ every year; 7% of all champions)
#3: 0-7 record (no champions)
#4: 0-2 record (no champions)
 
Runner-up average losses before championship match: 1.66
Champion average losses before championship match: 0.47
 
Comments:
 
1. The #4 over #1 upset happens far less than people think it does.  It's only about once every 3 weight classes, on average.  And when it does happen, it's usually in a match we might expect it, where the #4 was clearly from an especially difficult semi-state in his weight class.  As you can see in the quarterfinal stats, the 4's that win go on to be a coin flip proposition for also winning in the second round--meaning the ones that win in the first round are just as good, on average, as a #2 or #3 that's good enough to win his first match.  We should already know this, since these guys already beat a #1, but I think we sometimes believe it's luck or a fluke that #4's win.  Usually, it's because the #4 was a potential state placer stuck in a meat grinder weight class at semi-state.
In trying to make #4 over #1 picks, try to find those logical match-ups where a highly regarded guy finished 4th behind 3 other highly regarded wrestlers while his #1 seed opponent maybe has a few losses on the season and finished ahead of only a ranked wrestler or two at semi-state.
 
2. Finalists are truly the best of the best.  In addition to only 1 second seed per year winning a title, only 2 to 4 champions per year finish the season with any losses at all.  Even among runners-up, the significant majority had 0 to 2 losses before the championship match.  If you are predicting any 5-loss dark horse champions for this weekend, think again.  In fact, you would be wise to make all of your champion picks be semi-state champions from among the top 2 or 3 rated guys in the state.
 
 
 
 
 

I have had the opportunity to coach for 25 year. I grew up and wrestled in Ohio. I think it should be classed. Two classes. I have coached at both small and large schools. I think today--to keep things interesting--kids need to have success. They need to be able to set attainable goals. I think in the long run dual meet/ team success--is what keeps kids together. A kid at a small school does not have the same chances to experience state success. With a half of a line up it is also tough to experience team success
 
I would be curious to poll all the wrestlers in Indiana to hear their preference

Numbers for one thing. Bigger programs have many quality runners that focus on one or two events. Smaller ones have no chance to win meets unless there runners do 3 or 4 events. Big difference, takes a lot out of a kid doing that many events. Also training partners just like wrestling. It's much easier to improve when you have faster and better runners to train with, makes everyone better. Not to mention if someone is off or injured, that can devastate a smaller team. Bigger programs just reload with another runner. There have been many times in CC were top runners don't even compete in sectionals because the team will still advance due to depth. And as several coaches have stated to me, many individual sports take more athletes than basketball, so why not class them all.

Your son (a great wrestler) is a year out of high school and you're still plugging him?!?  C'MON MAN!  :-D
 

Brian Williams was at Merrilville distributing the state pairing formulas. He said he pushed print.

You all keep missing the point of advocating for two classes.
It's about improving the sport for as many programs as possible.
 
The program at South Adams is a perfect example of why we need classes, lol
 
 
And for those referencing the "feelings" of our state champs, who cares?
 
 
There are four thousand varsity wrestlers in the state, I couldn't care less about the self esteem of our champs lol

Wow, look it up. There are contest and participant minimums for each sport. Meaning roster minimum. Don't recall filling rosters as a reason to class Wrestling in Indiana anyway.