Association Wrestling: Could It Work?

[blueandgold]

I posted this on the InterMat board, and figured I'd post here as well. Another revised concept of association wrestling in the United States.

 

Original post:

 

If the United States and other nations in the Americas (North, Central, and South) introduced an association wrestling system the way we see with association football (soccer), how plausible is it that it could find success to some degree? I've been active in the sport of wrestling for over ten years now as a competitor, coach, and fan, and I've recently become a big association football fan, and I wonder if how well it would work if we borrowed their system for wrestling. In the United States, it seems we try to build cards like boxing, mixed martial arts, or professional wrestling when in reality it's hard to promote a freestyle match in the same vein as the aforementioned sports due to lack of perceived violence. From RPW to the recent Flo cards, the promotion and events are fine, but they don't click.

 

So, what's next?

 

Well, association wrestling. When people hear "professional wrestling", the term immediately makes one think of WWE, AEW, NWA, etc., so the first step is stepping out of the shadow of sports entertainment. Second, what would it look like in the USA? Here's a quick write-up I made borrowing some elements from Premier League, La Liga, NBA, NFL, and the current NCAA wrestling system.

 

The Name

• The League of American Wrestling Premier Division (Legal); American Premier League (Informal)

Country

• United States of America

Confederation

• Union of American Wrestling Associations (UAWA)

Number of Teams

• 24

Level on Pyramid

• 1

Relegation to

• National Wrestling Championship of the United States (Legal); League II (Informal)

 

Competition Format

Each club wrestles a 20-match regular season schedule including six matches from a double round robin against the three other teams in their region. The top two teams from each region will qualify for the final stage bracket to determine a league champion. The top four teams based on record (total dual meet points used for tiebreaker) entering the final stage will automatically toggle the top four seeds and receive a bye, while the remaining teams will do battle in the Round of 16. Teams are ranked by record and dual meet points. Individual weight class champions are determined prior to the beginning of the final stage of the team tournament. The top 12 wrestlers from each weight (based on record and total points) will compete in a round robin of four pools, the winners from each of the four pools are then paired in a bracket to determine the individual champion. The top four wrestlers who make the final stage of the individual tournament will be named to the Iron League (compare to NBA All-Star or NFL Pro Bowl) while champions and runner-ups will also be named to the All-America first and second team (compare to All-NBA or NFL All-Pro).

 

Weight Classes

1. 126 lbs.
2. 134 lbs.
3. 142 lbs.
4. 150 lbs.
5. 155 lbs.
6. 165 lbs.
7. 175 lbs.
8. 190 lbs.
9. 225 lbs.
10. 285 lbs.

 

Rules and Scoring

• Two 4-minute periods + one 2-minute sudden-victory period (if necessary), followed by a two one-minute shot clocks to determine a winner (if necessary)
• Par terre optional only after a wrestler scores
• Takedown (three points of contact) = 2 Points
• Exposure = 2 Points
• Feet to Back = 4 Points
• Grand Amplitude Throw = 5 Points
• Reversal = 1 Point
• Passivity = 1 Point (2nd Warning), 2 Points (3rd Warning), Disqualification (4th Warning)
• No points awarded for push-outs
• Takedown can still be scored out of bounds as long as contact was previously established on the mat
• A match ends by technical fall when a wrestler is ahead by 15 points minimum

 

Win Conditions and Point Totals

• Fall = 3 Points
• Technical Superiority = 2 Points
• Decision = 1 Point
• Disqualification = 1 Point

A wrestler will receive 0 points for a loss and will be deducted 0.5 points for a disqualification.

 

Teams (23 United States + 1 Canada)

1. Arlington WC (Arlington, Texas)
2. Atlanta WC (Atlanta, Georgia)
3. Atlantic City WC (Atlantic City, New Jersey)
4. Austin WC (Austin, Texas)
5. Boston WC (Boston, Massachusetts)
6. Carolina United WC (Charlotte, North Carolina)
7. Cheyenne WC (Cheyenne, Wyoming)
8. Chicago WC (Chicago, Illinois)
9. Colorado Springs WC (Colorado Springs, Colorado)
10. Detroit WC (Auburn Hills, Michigan)
11. Indianapolis WC (Indianapolis, Indiana)
12. Iowa City WC (Iowa City, Iowa)
13. Las Vegas WC (Las Vegas, Nevada)
14. Lincoln WC (Lincoln, Nebraska)
15. Los Angeles WC (Los Angeles, California)
16. New York WC (New York, New York)
17. Orlando WC (Orlando, Florida)
18. Philadelphia WC (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania)
19. Portland WC (Portland, Oregon)
20. Richmond WC (Richmond, Virginia)
21. Sioux Falls WC (Sioux Falls, South Dakota)
22. Tulsa WC (Tulsa, Oklahoma)
23. Twin Cities WC (Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota)
24. Vancouver WC (Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada)

 

Teams by Region
East

1. Atlantic City
2. Boston
3. New York
4. Philadelphia

Midwest

1. Chicago
2. Detroit
3. Indianapolis
4. Twin Cities

Mountain West

1. Cheyenne
2. Iowa City
3. Lincoln
4. Sioux Falls

Southeast

1. Atlanta
2. Carolina United
3. Orlando
4. Richmond

Southwest

1. Arlington
2. Austin
3. Colorado Springs
4. Tulsa

West

1. Las Vegas
2. Los Angeles
3. Portland
4. Vancouver

 

Postseason

Individual

• Group Stage (Pool A, Pool B, Pool C, Pool D; winner from each pool advances to final stage)
• Final Stage (4-Man Knockout, all final stage qualifiers named to Iron League and begin American Super Cup, champion and runner-up named to All-America team)

Team

• Top two teams from each region advance to final stage (12-man knockout, 4 byes for top seeds)
• Top four teams based on record and total dual points earn 1-4 seeds, remaining eight teams battle in qualifying round
• Final eight teams begin Schultz Cup, top four teams receive banners, champions and runners-up receive hardware

Edited August 10, 2023 by blueandgold

[MattM]

[blueandgold]

2 hours ago, MattM said:

RPW was never going to work for exactly why I stated above. Cards and champions in wrestling won’t attract anyone besides people who are already wrestling fans because of the lack of perceived violence. So, you have to appeal another way.

[base]

One piece I'll add here.  Boxing is still huge money, but now mostly only appeals to boxing fans.  Common citizen probably can't name even 1 or 2 boxers if asked.

 

One of the things that fueled the success in the 1970s was the public availability to the sport.  If a wrestling league like this was to be successful, my opinion is that you would want to bring back a "Wide World of Sports" type atmosphere and try to broadcast it on Sunday afternoon, if possible on a network station.  Sure, you would lose a lot of viewers to NFL, but even they may flip over on breaks to see what the sport is about.  If the rules are clear, it rewards aggressiveness and offense, and matches are fairly quick then it could get some audience

[casualwrestlingfan]

Think you have to go the route of PLL in lacrosse. Traveling league with teams before setting up home cities. I'd like to see it be the 3 styles together for each club. Have folkstyle matches, freestyle matches, and Greco-Roman matches. Heck even create what I call Combined Style matches where the individual match has a guaranteed 3 periods. One period Greco-Roman, one freestyle, and one folkstyle. 

[Ahawkeye]

I love wrestling but I don't see this working, at any level. I'm gonna lay some hard truths down but keep in mind I love and coach the sport.

 

Most people think wrestling is boring, unless you've got a highlight reel of super awesome throws no one really gives us a second thought.

 

Unfortunately people still look at our sport as kinda gay, "Two guys in tights rolling on the ground..." Sorry, I don't feel that way but the stigma is still there.

 

I don't think you're going to make a wrestling fan out of someone who isn't already a wrestling fan. Sure in high school you might get the school behind the team but when there are no school colors attached to those wrestlers I think people lose interest fast.

 

What style would you wrestle? Freestyle is fun to wrestle but boring to watch in my opinion, folkstyle is a bit more entertaining (again in my opinion) but the top tier guys out of college are training in freestyle.

 

I have zero clue what the answer is on this next question but here goes....

How many people do you know outside of wrestling really sit down and watch NCAA tournament wrestling? Or care to watch Olympic wrestling? My guess is not many. These are our biggest stages and we don't get viewership, do you really think putting lights and smoke out there is going to change that? I think not. 

 

Before you get mad at me keep in mind 2 things. #1 I love the sport as much as anyone. #2 I'm just being honest.

[blueandgold]

12 hours ago, Ahawkeye said:

I love wrestling but I don't see this working, at any level. I'm gonna lay some hard truths down but keep in mind I love and coach the sport.

 

Most people think wrestling is boring, unless you've got a highlight reel of super awesome throws no one really gives us a second thought.

 

Unfortunately people still look at our sport as kinda gay, "Two guys in tights rolling on the ground..." Sorry, I don't feel that way but the stigma is still there.

 

I don't think you're going to make a wrestling fan out of someone who isn't already a wrestling fan. Sure in high school you might get the school behind the team but when there are no school colors attached to those wrestlers I think people lose interest fast.

 

What style would you wrestle? Freestyle is fun to wrestle but boring to watch in my opinion, folkstyle is a bit more entertaining (again in my opinion) but the top tier guys out of college are training in freestyle.

 

I have zero clue what the answer is on this next question but here goes....

How many people do you know outside of wrestling really sit down and watch NCAA tournament wrestling? Or care to watch Olympic wrestling? My guess is not many. These are our biggest stages and we don't get viewership, do you really think putting lights and smoke out there is going to change that? I think not. 

 

Before you get mad at me keep in mind 2 things. #1 I love the sport as much as anyone. #2 I'm just being honest.

Not mad, brother. You stated unfortunate facts, but facts nonetheless

[Jcjcjc]

On 8/10/2023 at 5:17 PM, blueandgold said:

I posted this on the InterMat board, and figured I'd post here as well. Another revised concept of association wrestling in the United States.

 

Original post:

 

If the United States and other nations in the Americas (North, Central, and South) introduced an association wrestling system the way we see with association football (soccer), how plausible is it that it could find success to some degree? I've been active in the sport of wrestling for over ten years now as a competitor, coach, and fan, and I've recently become a big association football fan, and I wonder if how well it would work if we borrowed their system for wrestling. In the United States, it seems we try to build cards like boxing, mixed martial arts, or professional wrestling when in reality it's hard to promote a freestyle match in the same vein as the aforementioned sports due to lack of perceived violence. From RPW to the recent Flo cards, the promotion and events are fine, but they don't click.

 

So, what's next?

 

Well, association wrestling. When people hear "professional wrestling", the term immediately makes one think of WWE, AEW, NWA, etc., so the first step is stepping out of the shadow of sports entertainment. Second, what would it look like in the USA? Here's a quick write-up I made borrowing some elements from Premier League, La Liga, NBA, NFL, and the current NCAA wrestling system.

 

The Name

• The League of American Wrestling Premier Division (Legal); American Premier League (Informal)

Country

• United States of America

Confederation

• Union of American Wrestling Associations (UAWA)

Number of Teams

• 24

Level on Pyramid

• 1

Relegation to

• National Wrestling Championship of the United States (Legal); League II (Informal)

 

Competition Format

Each club wrestles a 20-match regular season schedule including six matches from a double round robin against the three other teams in their region. The top two teams from each region will qualify for the final stage bracket to determine a league champion. The top four teams based on record (total dual meet points used for tiebreaker) entering the final stage will automatically toggle the top four seeds and receive a bye, while the remaining teams will do battle in the Round of 16. Teams are ranked by record and dual meet points. Individual weight class champions are determined prior to the beginning of the final stage of the team tournament. The top 12 wrestlers from each weight (based on record and total points) will compete in a round robin of four pools, the winners from each of the four pools are then paired in a bracket to determine the individual champion. The top four wrestlers who make the final stage of the individual tournament will be named to the Iron League (compare to NBA All-Star or NFL Pro Bowl) while champions and runner-ups will also be named to the All-America first and second team (compare to All-NBA or NFL All-Pro).

 

Weight Classes

1. 126 lbs.
2. 134 lbs.
3. 142 lbs.
4. 150 lbs.
5. 155 lbs.
6. 165 lbs.
7. 175 lbs.
8. 190 lbs.
9. 225 lbs.
10. 285 lbs.

 

Rules and Scoring

• Two 4-minute periods + one 2-minute sudden-victory period (if necessary), followed by a two one-minute shot clocks to determine a winner (if necessary)
• Par terre optional only after a wrestler scores
• Takedown (three points of contact) = 2 Points
• Exposure = 2 Points
• Feet to Back = 4 Points
• Grand Amplitude Throw = 5 Points
• Reversal = 1 Point
• Passivity = 1 Point (2nd Warning), 2 Points (3rd Warning), Disqualification (4th Warning)
• No points awarded for push-outs
• Takedown can still be scored out of bounds as long as contact was previously established on the mat
• A match ends by technical fall when a wrestler is ahead by 15 points minimum

 

Win Conditions and Point Totals

• Fall = 3 Points
• Technical Superiority = 2 Points
• Decision = 1 Point
• Disqualification = 1 Point

A wrestler will receive 0 points for a loss and will be deducted 0.5 points for a disqualification.

 

Teams (23 United States + 1 Canada)

1. Arlington WC (Arlington, Texas)
2. Atlanta WC (Atlanta, Georgia)
3. Atlantic City WC (Atlantic City, New Jersey)
4. Austin WC (Austin, Texas)
5. Boston WC (Boston, Massachusetts)
6. Carolina United WC (Charlotte, North Carolina)
7. Cheyenne WC (Cheyenne, Wyoming)
8. Chicago WC (Chicago, Illinois)
9. Colorado Springs WC (Colorado Springs, Colorado)
10. Detroit WC (Auburn Hills, Michigan)
11. Indianapolis WC (Indianapolis, Indiana)
12. Iowa City WC (Iowa City, Iowa)
13. Las Vegas WC (Las Vegas, Nevada)
14. Lincoln WC (Lincoln, Nebraska)
15. Los Angeles WC (Los Angeles, California)
16. New York WC (New York, New York)
17. Orlando WC (Orlando, Florida)
18. Philadelphia WC (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania)
19. Portland WC (Portland, Oregon)
20. Richmond WC (Richmond, Virginia)
21. Sioux Falls WC (Sioux Falls, South Dakota)
22. Tulsa WC (Tulsa, Oklahoma)
23. Twin Cities WC (Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota)
24. Vancouver WC (Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada)

 

Teams by Region
East

1. Atlantic City
2. Boston
3. New York
4. Philadelphia

Midwest

1. Chicago
2. Detroit
3. Indianapolis
4. Twin Cities

Mountain West

1. Cheyenne
2. Iowa City
3. Lincoln
4. Sioux Falls

Southeast

1. Atlanta
2. Carolina United
3. Orlando
4. Richmond

Southwest

1. Arlington
2. Austin
3. Colorado Springs
4. Tulsa

West

1. Las Vegas
2. Los Angeles
3. Portland
4. Vancouver

 

Postseason

Individual

• Group Stage (Pool A, Pool B, Pool C, Pool D; winner from each pool advances to final stage)
• Final Stage (4-Man Knockout, all final stage qualifiers named to Iron League and begin American Super Cup, champion and runner-up named to All-America team)

Team

• Top two teams from each region advance to final stage (12-man knockout, 4 byes for top seeds)
• Top four teams based on record and total dual points earn 1-4 seeds, remaining eight teams battle in qualifying round
• Final eight teams begin Schultz Cup, top four teams receive banners, champions and runners-up receive hardware

 

 

This is a ton of matches for people to not win a world championship. 

 

Right now, our sport rewards people winning world titles or having the ability to win a world title. Winning matches that don't take you to that goal are extraneous. Until the money of a league becomes bigger than the money of a world title, leagues won't work. 

[Fabio Jr.]

The unfortunate truth, $$$ is the thing it needs.....and wrestlings last "Big Donor" doesn't have the best track record unfortunately. 

[Ahawkeye]

On 9/1/2023 at 1:34 PM, Fabio Jr. said:

The unfortunate truth, $$$ is the thing it needs.....and wrestlings last "Big Donor" doesn't have the best track record unfortunately. 

Very true, he was a bit "off" a sad end, it seemed the donarship was endless, and he took one of our best.