Some more stats from 2015 State

[X_R A T E D]

You are talking about a team sport though. First off... but besides that point this just shows that INDIVIDUALS from small schools don't have a disadvantage because of work ethic, size of the school or anything of the sort. The TEAM has a disadvantage because they don't have the same probability of having AS MANY wrestlers. This does not limit the INDIVIDUAL from being state placing quality.

Let's say we have a state qualifier from Perry Meridian and a state qualifier from Southern Wells. We can say that both wrestlers put the same time into the sport and work as hard as each other but let's look at the practice room. Perry's state qualifier might have a semi state qualifier and 2 state qualifiers around his weight to push him everyday. Southern wells will be lucky to have 2 or 3 regional kids around the same weight to push their state qualifier. Yes, they might "work as hard" but being in a practice room that has multiple semi state and state qualifiers making each other better is a huge advantage compared to drilling with a couple of regional qualifiers and maybe 1 Semistate qualifier. I would bet that Uk from Perry benefited from practicing with Elliot and James day after day. A better TEAM give an advantage to the Individual which is how Y2 is saying small schools will continue to struggle in our current system

Edited March 4, 2015 by X_R A T E D

[backtothemat]

I can just see a higher up at the IHSAA reading this post and saying to themselves "Well, at least we don't need to worry about class wrestling being an issue that we need wrestle with any time soon, thanks to all the infighting on IndianaMat's message board!"

 

Pun intended.

[warsawwrestling]

Is this saying you only judge the good programs by their finish at state?

Has this helped the quality and quantity of wrestling in the state? Heck, there is a post on here that a dad said his kid wanted to win an Illinois state title over an Indiana one...Illinois is CLASSED!

It is not the only judge of a "good program" and before you ask or a "great program", but it sure doesn't hurt.

 

The quality is hurt because we argue about classing year after year, instead of spending that time improving/helping each other to succeed.  For example help other programs run successful tournaments instead of saying just do it or help set up RTC's in 30-40 range of others.  Just an idea.

[Y2CJ41]

It is not the only judge of a "good program" and before you ask or a "great program", but it sure doesn't hurt.

 

The quality is hurt because we argue about classing year after year, instead of spending that time improving/helping each other to succeed.  For example help other programs run successful tournaments instead of saying just do it or help set up RTC's in 30-40 range of others.  Just an idea.

I'm trying to fish for what you are getting at.  From 1980-2014 Culver had two state champions and Penn had zero. Which program is better? In 2013 Culver finished ahead of Carroll, Penn, Castle, Crown Point, Lawrence North, Avon, Elkhart Memorial, Bellmont, etc. Is Culver a better program than those others?

 

 

You didn't answer anything about quantity of wrestlers. Do you think with our all inclusive club of the best of the best is really getting kids to come out at schools that don't traditionally have state qualifiers? On that same note would it help or hurt our state to only have 8 state qualifiers?

[bwoodjc89]

Our state tournament is THE most difficult state tournament to qualify for (based off of a link that Y2 provided in another thread). Yet, we can barely claim to be a top 10 wrestling state. Is our tournament that special to us that we won't try something different to improve wrestling in our state?

[Thor]

Our state tournament is THE most difficult state tournament to qualify for (based off of a link that Y2 provided in another thread). Yet, we can barely claim to be a top 10 wrestling state. Is our tournament that special to us that we won't try something different to improve wrestling in our state?

I know we can always strive to get better but isn't being in the top 10 good?

[bwoodjc89]

I know we can always strive to get better but isn't being in the top 10 good?

Is it good enough for you?

[Thor]

Is it good enough for you?

I'm not saying it's good enough but it's not as terrible as you implied.

[Y2CJ41]

I know we can always strive to get better but isn't being in the top 10 good?

If you base how tough your state is on what percentage of athletes qualify for state, we should be top 2 in the nation. For some odd reason states with similar populations(or smaller) like Iowa and Wisconsin generally have better wrestling and are classed.

[bwoodjc89]

 

 

I'm not saying it's good enough but it's not as terrible as you implied. 

I don't think I implied anything.  I'm not responsible for how you read things. I said we can barely claim to be top 10.  I think we'd all like to be higher than that?

Edited March 4, 2015 by bwoodjc89

[swain358]

I read your post fine, you tell your kids if you want to be a state qualifier don't do any other sports. 

 

Would you have no problem with your all-conference linebacker and maybe two-way starter to come up to you this week and tell you he's quitting football to be a state qualifier in wrestling? Of if he did the opposite and quit wrestling to focus solely on football.

 

I read where Kaine Luginbill played football and Sawyer Miller was a state qualifier in cross country. These kids at the 1A level that qualify for state are great athletes and work hard with limited resources like coaching, practice partners, scheduling, etc. It should be more than just the very elite of these kids that get recognized for their hard work and sacrifices they make.

 

We aren't doing the sport, nor the kids any favors when we must tell a kid he needs to specialize or he's not going to state. Your kids that do multiple sports work hard, they make sacrifices, just as the ones that wrestle year round. Should this sport only be about year round wrestlers?

So are you saying that if one of your multi sport athlete really wants to focus on getting to the next level and he tells you that he does not plan on playing whatever his 2nd or 3rd sport is you will force him to play the other sport? You will push him out the door and forbid him from coming to your offseason practices? Fact is kids will do what they want to do. As coaches we should not make kids do anything that they do not want to do. So if a kid on my team is a very talented football player and wants to focus on that, I cannot and will not make him wrestle or even be mad at him for wanting to choose that path. It's the kids choice. Of our 5 semi state qualifiers this year 3 play other sports as well so obviously I do not make kids wrestle all year and it is possible to get to that level playing another sport but again, the more wrestling you do the greater you increase your wrestling abilities and chances to get to that level.

[warsawwrestling]

I'm trying to fish for what you are getting at.  From 1980-2014 Culver had two state champions and Penn had zero. Which program is better? In 2013 Culver finished ahead of Carroll, Penn, Castle, Crown Point, Lawrence North, Avon, Elkhart Memorial, Bellmont, etc. Is Culver a better program than those others?

 

 

You didn't answer anything about quantity of wrestlers. Do you think with our all inclusive club of the best of the best is really getting kids to come out at schools that don't traditionally have state qualifiers? On that same note would it help or hurt our state to only have 8 state qualifiers?

I can only speak from my view and from what I have experienced.  My senior 92' we (warsaw) didn't field a full team and the quality was pretty good  a couple multi-state placers (Aaron Wilson, Derrick Crousore)and a few other decent kids (didn't seem to build our numbers much).  If I remember we were missing 3-4 weight classes.  We didn't win sectionals, but won regional because the few kids we had were good kids. 

 

My intentions when I started coaching (8-9 years ago) was to build a kids club, because I didn't want my son to have that same experience.  When I started coaching they couldn't find a coach for the middle school so I started helping there on top of kids club.  2 years later they couldn't find a coach to coach the High school (they had a few pretty good kids at the time).  So now in the 3rd year till now I'm coaching High School, on and off at Middle School (depending if they can find a coach for that year) and coaching kids club.  I don't have the answers and even if I did, from the sounds of things we can't get passed ourselves to organize enough to go up higher with sound ideas and even if we did it sounds like no one is willing to listening.  

[Thor]

If you base how tough your state is on what percentage of athletes qualify for state, we should be top 2 in the nation. For some odd reason states with similar populations(or smaller) like Iowa and Wisconsin generally have better wrestling and are classed.

Wiw didn't know that. Thanks for the info

[Y2CJ41]

So are you saying that if one of your multi sport athlete really wants to focus on getting to the next level and he tells you that he does not plan on playing whatever his 2nd or 3rd sport is you will force him to play the other sport? You will push him out the door and forbid him from coming to your offseason practices?

I will never tell a kid to quit another sport, never have and never will. If a kid asks me if he should quit football to become a better wrestler I will say no. I had a freshman this year that was debating on whether to play football or not. I asked him why he wanted to play football and he said to be with his friends. I asked if he was planning on playing as a sophomore, he said probably not. I told him if he wants to play football it should be because he likes to hit people, loves the coaches, likes the games, etc. I told him I don't want a wrestler that is here to hang out with friends and the football coach probably feels the same way.

 

Fact is kids will do what they want to do. As coaches we should not make kids do anything that they do not want to do. So if a kid on my team is a very talented football player and wants to focus on that, I cannot and will not make him wrestle or even be mad at him for wanting to choose that path. It's the kids choice. Of our 5 semi state qualifiers this year 3 play other sports as well so obviously I do not make kids wrestle all year and it is possible to get to that level playing another sport but again, the more wrestling you do the greater you increase your wrestling abilities and chances to get to that level.

You're right it's a kid's choice. The way I'm reading it is you're telling Johnny Regional Qualifier that "well you see you only put 150 days of work into wrestling and this is what it got you. If you'd quit football you'd get 300 days and be a state qualifier." You're most likely not saying that exactly, but that is what the kid is hearing.

 

I don't disagree with your statement that you should put in 300 days of work to be a state qualifier. However, I disagree with you in that we shouldn't punish kids from small schools that have disadvantages from enjoying success in the sport. The end all is kids from small schools shouldn't be punished for being multi-sport athletes. 

[ENoblewrestling]

I think you are having issues comprehending the data, based on that rambling post. No class advocate thinks it should be 33% for each class. 

I still haven't seen you make an argument that shows me that the way that I read the data is incorrect.  As you see below the only argument against the way that I read the data (which is that you would expect 63% of the state qualifiers to come from 63% of the population) is to say that 33.3% of the qualifiers should come from each class.

 

Why are you looking at overall student population.  If there are no advantages to the individual then every Busco entrant into the state tournament should have an equal chance as every Carroll entrant and the numbers should reflect this.

The overall student population effects the likelihood that an individual wrestling for a larger school team will be a better wrestler.  For a team there is an advantage, individually not so much, the stats show that 63% of the population produces 63% of the qualifiers, to me we are almost exactly where we should be in terms of what you would statistically expect.

You stated that for a kid to be a state qualifier he needs to adapt the "state qualifier mindset for 360 days a year."

 

In our system it would then seem on 43 kids in 1A adapt that mindset, while 141 from 3A schools do.

Carroll had 14 entries at sectional and Churubusco had 14 entries also

 

In a one class system it signifies EVERYONE is equal. That means no matter the athlete he has an equal chance to make it to state. The data shows that the kids that come out of a 1A school have a drastically less chance of qualifying for state.

School entries into the state tournament are all EQUAL meaning the SAME

 

 

Does a wrestler from Churubusco have the same chance to make it to state as a Carroll kid?

A good kid from either school has the same chance.  The only difference between the two is that Carroll is more likely to have more good kids because they have a larger sample size to choose from.  More kids means that your team is more likely to have more solid individuals.  This has no effect on the good individuals at a smaller school.  Again your data shows about what you would predict, 63% of the population producing 63% of the qualifiers, 25% producing 27%, and 13% producing 9% (which I will agree is a little lower than what you would like).

[bog190]

I still haven't seen you make an argument that shows me that the way that I read the data is incorrect.  As you see below the only argument against the way that I read the data (which is that you would expect 63% of the state qualifiers to come from 63% of the population) is to say that 33.3% of the qualifiers should come from each class.

 

If you are basing it on population, 1a (which has 13% of the state's student population) should get 29 qualifiers (13% of 224), the last 5 years 1a has 21 (9.4%), 26 (11.6%), 20 (8.9%), 21 (9.4%) and 24 (10.7%).

 

If all is fair individually as you say, the placers should follow student population as well and 1a should have 14.5 placers per year, lets call it 14.  The last 5 years 1a has had 5 (4.5%), 1 (less than 1%), 8 (7.1%), 7 (6.3%) and 9 (8%).

 

Each of the past 5 years they have been short on qualifiers, and extremely short on placers.  Why is this?

Edited March 4, 2015 by bog190

[Y2CJ41]

The overall student population effects the likelihood that an individual wrestling for a larger school team will be a better wrestler.  For a team there is an advantage, individually not so much, the stats show that 63% of the population produces 63% of the qualifiers, to me we are almost exactly where we should be in terms of what you would statistically expect.

The whole population isn't entered into sectional only 14 entries are allowed. If our whole team was entered into sectional we'd have a few more regional and semi-state qualifiers.

 

If it doesn't matter individually each entry in the state tournament would have an equal shot at qualifying for state. 

 

The reason we classed teams is because 1A teams didn't have an equal shot at making it to state....right?

 

A good kid from either school has the same chance.  The only difference between the two is that Carroll is more likely to have more good kids because they have a larger sample size to choose from.  More kids means that your team is more likely to have more solid individuals.  This has no effect on the good individuals at a smaller school.  Again your data shows about what you would predict, 63% of the population producing 63% of the qualifiers, 25% producing 27%, and 13% producing 9% (which I will agree is a little lower than what you would like).

So having more "solid individuals" doesn't help the "unsolid individuals?"

 

 

If I pick a random 1A 145lber and a random 3A 145lber who would you pick to win the match without knowing anything else?

[oldandbroke]

How many coaches on here struggle to find a good practice partner for your best kids and what size school are you at?  What do you tell a kid when you see him wrestling all year long while playing other sports knowing you don't have a kid in the room he can't tech fall and pin in a period for him to practice with once season starts......go shadow wrestle kid......it will win you a state championship.....?  

[Super_Fan]

I've shown the individuals are at a disadvantage.... only 1.7% of the 1A wrestlers that enter sectional qualify for state, while 11.2% of 3A wrestlers do! 

 

I'll propose a bet with you like I did Sam.

 

You pick 700 1A wrestlers at sectional, I'll pick 100 3A and we'll see who gets the most state qualifiers. Wanna take me up on it?

If it was a random draw then certainly. But you would have a lot easier time picking 100 good wrestlers out of hundred of thousands of kids than i would picking from tens of thousands. even if i could pick 5x as many as you. You have a lot bigger sample size to draw from. Giving you more probability of being able to locate 100 good wrestlers.

Let's say we have a state qualifier from Perry Meridian and a state qualifier from Southern Wells. We can say that both wrestlers put the same time into the sport and work as hard as each other but let's look at the practice room. Perry's state qualifier might have a semi state qualifier and 2 state qualifiers around his weight to push him everyday. Southern wells will be lucky to have 2 or 3 regional kids around the same weight to push their state qualifier. Yes, they might "work as hard" but being in a practice room that has multiple semi state and state qualifiers making each other better is a huge advantage compared to drilling with a couple of regional qualifiers and maybe 1 Semistate qualifier. I would bet that Uk from Perry benefited from practicing with Elliot and James day after day. A better TEAM give an advantage to the Individual which is how Y2 is saying small schools will continue to struggle in our current system

Suppose we believe that by having more kids from small schools make it further in the state tourney does that mean that these new kids that come out for wrestling are going to be on the same level as those perry practice partners? NO So how will more regional quality kids make the semi state kids better?

[Y2CJ41]

If it was a random draw then certainly. But you would have a lot easier time picking 100 good wrestlers out of hundred of thousands of kids than i would picking from tens of thousands. even if i could pick 5x as many as you. You have a lot bigger sample size to draw from. Giving you more probability of being able to locate 100 good wrestlers.

I would have a smaller sample to pick from. There are 1300 wrestlers for each of us to choose from. If we would do a random selection of those same numbers(100 3A and 700 1A), we'd be almost equal. Counting kids that don't wrestle or enter sectional gives me a zero chance of winning.  Approximately 6% of the wrestlers at sectional make it to state, that means if you pick 700 you should get 36, while I should get 6 if I pick 100.

 

Suppose we believe that by having more kids from small schools make it further in the state tourney does that mean that these new kids that come out for wrestling are going to be on the same level as those perry practice partners? NO So how will more regional quality kids make the semi state kids better?

No one has said the new kids that come out will be on the level of Perry's practice partners. As I(and others) have said, to see the affects you'd need to wait 10-20 years.

 

When a school gets better at a sport(whether by creating classes, better coaching, etc) more kids want to be a part of it. People want to be a part of a winner, no question there. So when Caprino High School with very little wrestling tradition starts getting more state qualifiers and others to the go-to round it starts creating more interest. That is from the community, other kids, youth kids, parents, etc. Thus this interest drives more of a youth club, more kids coming out for the team, and more kids doing off-season wrestling.

 

On top of that, kids that maybe were in the go-to round or just a qualifier put more time into the sport so they can get to that next level. If a couple kids are putting in extra work, it's easier for them to get a couple more to come along...and so on.

 

Now, this won't happen overnight, nor will it magically happen. If we'd go to a 2 class system, I would say that the state placers are still the harder working and most dedicated kids.

 

I have seen a program grow like this. At Garrett we wrestled in an Auxillary/Elementary gym when I was in high school to now all meets are in the main gym. I have seen the amount of fans increase drastically. The community support and general knowledge of the sport increase. The youth program is doing well, and so on. This started to snowball when they got their first state qualifier in 2003!

[swain358]

I will never tell a kid to quit another sport, never have and never will. If a kid asks me if he should quit football to become a better wrestler I will say no. I had a freshman this year that was debating on whether to play football or not. I asked him why he wanted to play football and he said to be with his friends. I asked if he was planning on playing as a sophomore, he said probably not. I told him if he wants to play football it should be because he likes to hit people, loves the coaches, likes the games, etc. I told him I don't want a wrestler that is here to hang out with friends and the football coach probably feels the same way.

 

 

You're right it's a kid's choice. The way I'm reading it is you're telling Johnny Regional Qualifier that "well you see you only put 150 days of work into wrestling and this is what it got you. If you'd quit football you'd get 300 days and be a state qualifier." You're most likely not saying that exactly, but that is what the kid is hearing.

 

 

I don't disagree with your statement that you should put in 300 days of work to be a state qualifier. However, I disagree with you in that we shouldn't punish kids from small schools that have disadvantages from enjoying success in the sport. The end all is kids from small schools shouldn't be punished for being multi-sport athletes.

 

I tell kids to make their own decision and to not let anyone deter you from your life goals. If a kid has a goal to be a state level kid and CHOOSES to take advantage of every wrestling opportunity as possible that's his choice not anyone elses. Kids are smart enough to figure out the obvious on their own (more wrestling=more success) so as a coach, I do not have to tell kids that. Again, we had 27 kids on our team.. 23 are multi sport athletes so I do not see where you come to the conclusion that I tell kids not to do other sports. Of our 5 semi-state qualifiers, 3 were multi sport kids. Our kids that play 2 sports and really want to excel at wrestling train wrestling during their off season (either fall or spring). They aren't forced they CHOOSE to.

 

So are big school kids that play multiple sports being punished as well? Are big school coaches that allow their kids to choose to be only wrestlers being bad coaches? Are big school kids that see the writing on the wall that the kids having a ton of success are those that wrestle a lot in the offseason and decide to focus on wrestling being led in the wrong direction? So a kid that is marginal at whatever other sport but a very good wrestler decides that he really wants to make a run at a state title and wants to focus all of his time on wrestling you would deter him from making that decision if that's truly his decision and his parents support his decision? You would tell that kid he should do the other sport even if he does not want to because it gets in the way of his true passion goal? That is what I am getting from your post.

 

I am asking these questions because I want to make sure I am understanding you completely on this topic.

[Super_Fan]

I would have a smaller sample to pick from. There are 1300 wrestlers for each of us to choose from. If we would do a random selection of those same numbers(100 3A and 700 1A), we'd be almost equal. Counting kids that don't wrestle or enter sectional gives me a zero chance of winning.  Approximately 6% of the wrestlers at sectional make it to state, that means if you pick 700 you should get 36, while I should get 6 if I pick 100.

 

No one has said the new kids that come out will be on the level of Perry's practice partners. As I(and others) have said, to see the affects you'd need to wait 10-20 years.

 

When a school gets better at a sport(whether by creating classes, better coaching, etc) more kids want to be a part of it. People want to be a part of a winner, no question there. So when Caprino High School with very little wrestling tradition starts getting more state qualifiers and others to the go-to round it starts creating more interest. That is from the community, other kids, youth kids, parents, etc. Thus this interest drives more of a youth club, more kids coming out for the team, and more kids doing off-season wrestling.

 

On top of that, kids that maybe were in the go-to round or just a qualifier put more time into the sport so they can get to that next level. If a couple kids are putting in extra work, it's easier for them to get a couple more to come along...and so on.

 

Now, this won't happen overnight, nor will it magically happen. If we'd go to a 2 class system, I would say that the state placers are still the harder working and most dedicated kids.

 

I have seen a program grow like this. At Garrett we wrestled in an Auxillary/Elementary gym when I was in high school to now all meets are in the main gym. I have seen the amount of fans increase drastically. The community support and general knowledge of the sport increase. The youth program is doing well, and so on. This started to snowball when they got their first state qualifier in 2003!

 

The sample sizes would be the same time at the begining of the tourney but the fact is the sample size is the actual population of the school. Obv a school with thousands of kids can find 14 that are pretty good at wrestling. When you multiply that by the number of large schools it quantifies this probability. Now at smaller schools with a smaller school population they are a lot less likely to even have 2 or 3 good wrestlers per team. Meaning you have a better chance of picking 100 kids than i would have even if i could pick all the kids in every small school.

 

Second paragraph:

How will these kids wrestle any more when they don't have the free time because of other sports? They wont be any better than the average kids who already do this...

 

I think you pretty much elude to the fact earlier in here that more kids wont necessarily make the good kids better. If kids want to make it to the state level it comes down to the fact kids at bigger schools are able to spend more time concentrating on wrestling. I get this from "On top of that, kids that maybe were in the go-to round or just a qualifier put more time into the sport so they can get to that next level. If a couple kids are putting in extra work, it's easier for them to get a couple more to come along...and so on."

 

So it comes down to the fact its not about having more kids on the team its about the kids that are already on the team spending more time on the mats.....

Edited March 4, 2015 by Super_Fan

[Y2CJ41]

So are big school kids that play multiple sports being punished as well? No they have the advantages such as more and higher quality practice partners, more coaches, etc.

 

Are big school coaches that allow their kids to choose to be only wrestlers being bad coaches? No

 

Are big school kids that see the writing on the wall that the kids having a ton of success are those that wrestle a lot in the offseason and decide to focus on wrestling being led in the wrong direction? No

 

So a kid that is marginal at whatever other sport but a very good wrestler decides that he really wants to make a run at a state title and wants to focus all of his time on wrestling you would deter him from making that decision if that's truly his decision and his parents support his decision? I won't deter him, but make sure he isn't letting the team down. If Zac McCray said he was going to quit football then that would have let the football team down. If a kid is 12th string and not getting playing time or doesn't like the sport then that is his choice. Of our top two kids 7 played another sport this year...compare that to 23 for your team. That is a big difference.

 

You would tell that kid he should do the other sport even if he does not want to because it gets in the way of his true passion goal? No

 

You are failing to see the difference in big and small schools. Your football team needs the wrestlers, if a handful of your wrestlers say they are quitting football to just wrestle it will have a major affect on the football team. At Carroll if a few kids(even starters) decide to quit football it has an affect, but not the same as at a 2A school. Of ou

The sample sizes would be the same time at the begining of the tourney but the fact is the sample size is the actual population of the school. Obv a school with thousands of kids can find 14 that are pretty good at wrestling. When you multiply that by the number of large schools it quantifies this probability. Now at smaller schools with a smaller school population they are a lot less likely to even have 2 or 3 good wrestlers per team. Meaning you have a better chance of picking 100 kids than i would have even if i could pick all the kids in every small school.

So you are saying that school size matters then right? Because if you are then that is the reason we have chosen to class athletics.
 
 

Second paragraph:
How will these kids wrestle any more when they don't have the free time because of other sports? They wont be any better than the average kids who already do this...

The kids will start at a younger age and they will also choose wrestling over the other sports during the off-season. I would venture to say state qualifiers do more in the offseason than semi-state qualifiers, and semi-state qualifiers put more time in the offseason than regional qualifiers, and so on. Would you not agree?

[KarlHungus]

 

 

The overall student population effects the likelihood that an individual wrestling for a larger school team will be a better wrestler.  

 

Why? If the student population doesn't matter for one individual, why should it matter for 14 individuals?

[swain358]

So are big school kids that play multiple sports being punished as well? No they have the advantages such as more and higher quality practice partners, more coaches, etc.

 

Are big school coaches that allow their kids to choose to be only wrestlers being bad coaches? No

 

Are big school kids that see the writing on the wall that the kids having a ton of success are those that wrestle a lot in the offseason and decide to focus on wrestling being led in the wrong direction? No

 

So a kid that is marginal at whatever other sport but a very good wrestler decides that he really wants to make a run at a state title and wants to focus all of his time on wrestling you would deter him from making that decision if that's truly his decision and his parents support his decision? I won't deter him, but make sure he isn't letting the team down. If Zac McCray said he was going to quit football then that would have let the football team down. If a kid is 12th string and not getting playing time or doesn't like the sport then that is his choice. Of our top two kids 7 played another sport this year...compare that to 23 for your team. That is a big difference.

 

You would tell that kid he should do the other sport even if he does not want to because it gets in the way of his true passion goal? No

 

You are failing to see the difference in big and small schools. Your football team needs the wrestlers, if a handful of your wrestlers say they are quitting football to just wrestle it will have a major affect on the football team. At Carroll if a few kids(even starters) decide to quit football it has an affect, but not the same as at a 2A school. Of ou

 

So you are saying that school size matters then right? Because if you are then that is the reason we have chosen to class athletics

 

 

The kids will start at a younger age and they will also choose wrestling over the other sports during the off-season. I would venture to say state qualifiers do more in the offseason than semi-state qualifiers, and semi-state qualifiers put more time in the offseason than regional qualifiers, and so on. Would you not agree?

So you are saying that school size matters then right? Because if you are then that is the reason we have chosen to class athletics.

So are you saying that the stud wrestler/ good football that really wants to reach his ultimate goal of being a state champion and wants to make the decision to focus only on wrestling in order to do something for HIMSELF that means ALOT to him, that kid has to sacrifice the time he could spend working hard to achieve his dream of getting a state wrestling title to instead spend his time playing football so he doesn't let down his team? And just because he is from a small school?

 

That is the message I am getting from your example of Zach McCray.

 

So kids at small schools should be forced to do all sports even if they do not want to? Is that what you are saying?

 

I understand why kids doing other sports at small schools are important. I live that life everyday, but what I do not agree with is making a kid put his goal on hold for another sport if that's not what he wants to do. That seems to be what you are implying.

Edited March 4, 2015 by swain358