chixfryer Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 If a top man throws a cross-face and locks hands to secure the far shoulder, is it locking hands, illegal headlock or legal move? We have seen this move by one team many times and have approached 2 refs with conflicting opinions. Would like other opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionsFan Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I don't think it's an illegal headlock, he doesn't have a head...i think you could call it locking hands...I've actually wondered this many times as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isaiah11 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Is he locking the hands under the chest and around the arms or over the back with basically just the head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbrick132 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Sounds like a head & arm which is legal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chixfryer Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Around the head with just a shoulder but no arm. The lock is over the shoulder not through the arm pit. Sometimes they don't have the shoulder immediately but acquire it with the locked hands. It happens quick but it is easily seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isaiah11 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 If by definition an illegal headlock would be any hands locked around the neck and/ or head without an arm then it would seem like that would be the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 There are some moves where you can lock hands around head if near fall has been established. Some pinning combinations out of legs allow this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chixfryer Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Definitely no near fall is established. This is a first move after breakdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookies03 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Without seeing the actual move it would be hard to be sure about the right call (and probably why you have gotten two different opinions from 2 refs) because it doesnt sound like there is any pressure on the head or neck. There are several situations where hands touch around the head without an arm and are not called illegal. For example when the top man gets too high and bottom man reaches up to grab the head and pull him over the top. Often this move results in the bottom mans hands being around the head without an arm. Another is in the double grapevine. Or in the neutral positon when a wrestler uses a clinch to snap down his opponent. The move you describe would not be locking hands unless the arms were around the body and remember touching hands is not locking hands. They must overlap or interlock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grecoref Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 If you have access to a Rules Book take a look at page 73, picture 58. This might be the hold you are describing. If so, it is a LEGAL head pry. Tom Clark IHSAA Rules Interpreter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benni hanna 79 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 The only place you can't lock hands is around the body. So that rules out locking hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Sobchak Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Bennihanna sushi boy.... I think you may want to rethink your answer. Greco ref may be able to shed like on this situation, but I believe I am correct in saying that if the top man locks his hands around both legs to keep the bottom man down it is locking hands. Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 he is right if you lock it uo like a laced ankles its def a point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benni hanna 79 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Yes but locking both legs is just like locking the body. once you go over an arm or to one leg it is no longer locking hands. just figured you guys would already just know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Sobchak Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I did know that, thats why I posted, but obviously someone else might not as you said only around the body... legs are different... do you need an anatomy lesson on the difference between a human and a fish? I love when you make that volcano out of the onion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benni hanna 79 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I did know that, thats why I posted, but obviously someone else might not as you said only around the body... legs are different... do you need an anatomy lesson on the difference between a human and a fish? I love when you make that volcano out of the onion. Who's this guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewrestlingdude Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 "Am I wrong?" ―Walter Walter Sobchak (born June 20, 1945) is a Vietnam War veteran, and The Dude's best friend and bowling teammate. Born a Polish Catholic, he converted to Judaism when he married his wife, Cynthia. They divorced five years prior to Bunny Lebowski's disappearance, but he still attempts a relationship with her, remains devoted to Judaism, and even takes care of her Pomeranian while she vacations with her new boyfriend. His experiences from the Vietnam War have left him mentally unstable and paranoid. He deals with some situations in a passive-aggressive and stubborn manner, while dealing with other situations in a recklessly head-on aggressive manner. He is boisterously confident in his actions, though his plans usually backfire, often ending disastrously. Walter runs his own security firm, Sobchak Security, and places bowling second in reverence only to his religion, as evidenced by his strict rule against bowling on Shabbos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chixfryer Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 If anyone is still reading this post, I finally got my hands on a rule book. Thanks Tom for leading me in that direction. It is a head pry. Good move to teach the kids for riding. I also enjoyed some of the other comments. Good luck to all in regionals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 If a top man throws a cross-face and locks hands to secure the far shoulder, is it locking hands, illegal headlock or legal move? We have seen this move by one team many times and have approached 2 refs with conflicting opinions. Would like other opinions. Are you describing a "corkscrew" or "bundle" in which I have heard it called? Locked hands refers to locking around the torso, from the shoulders down to the knees in a controlled state. You can lock around a head a arm, you can crossface with one arm and come under the body with the other arm and lock for that pinning hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benni hanna 79 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 From what I gather it is more of a bundle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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