Y2CJ41 Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 I can't believe you actually posted this. He "basically beat him" in a non-IHSAA event because of a call by a volunteer referee? If that is the type of criteria for these rankings, then none of them have any validity whatsoever. This sounds like one of the stories MattM mentioned about the CCC seeding meetings. They are both studs, but they can't both be #1 if they are in the same weight. If you are going to argue one over the other, please come up with something better than this. Offseason events have always been considered for the rankings, especially for the preseason rankings and rankings of incoming freshmen. This will not and has not changed since the website started. In this case both are very deserving of the #1 ranking. In the dicussions that took place it was brought up that these two did in fact wrestle in a live match and that while McKinley won the match, Molloy was absolutely HOSED in the first period. The match went to three periods where where McKinley won in a close third period. Offseason events are used to help guage kids that have put in the time in the offseason and are poised for breakout seasons. The results are also used to guage where a kid should be ranked if they are an incoming freshman. No way someone like Brandon James is ranked in the top five without using his offseason results. One last reason offseason results are used is that during the IHSAA season not everyone gets to see eachother and thus it is hard to guage where a kid should stand. Many times two kids will have wrestled in the same tournament and weight or have a common opponent at a tournament and that can help place a kid in the rankings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 FormerH appeared to have a reasonable idea...but Y2 indeed was waaaaay of base. I agree, Monday morning quarterbacking a NON-IHSAA event to get your criteria might be the stupidest thing anyone has posted on this board. AND remember Caliboy posts to this board! That being said, I hope this remains a conversation and isnt deleted like most posts that raise legit points. (before I am attacked, I think McK should be #1, but...the argument is indeed stupid.) So why would you put McKinley over Molloy? Why not use an offseason result in which they wrestled eachother? It is asinine to not use a head to head result between the two to determine their rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 Look for T$ under those lights if he goes 106 Cottey is right there as well, So he will beat a Fargo champ or the defending champion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WC182Dad Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Just my opinion but I think come the ennd of the season he will be right there with the top dogs whoever makes the strongest run ?? We will see. Hes got a great shot if he goes 106 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 According to the results, yes McKinley "won" that match. If you actually watch the match you will see how Molloy was hosed in the first period. The first one for a five point throw and the second when he continued with a takedown and two turns. In the end Molloy was only given one point by the refs. Here is the match and you can see it for yourself. http://video.iswa.com/coverage/238757-ISWA-Freestyle-State-Finals/video/490486-Junior-135lbs-Finals-Jarred-McKinleyBlue-vs-Neal-MolloyRed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachpierson Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 According to the results, yes McKinley "won" that match. If you actually watch the match you will see how Molloy was hosed in the first period of two technical falls. The first one for a five point throw and the second one when he continued with a takedown and three turns. In the Molloy was only given one point by the refs. Here is the match and you can see it for yourself. http://video.iswa.com/coverage/238757-ISWA-Freestyle-State-Finals/video/490486-Junior-135lbs-Finals-Jarred-McKinleyBlue-vs-Neal-MolloyRed lol well if head to head win isn't good he's a state champ and all-american. molloy went what 3-2 at fargo with one loss to the 5th placer and one loss to a guy that went 2-2. oh ya and as high as number 7 in the nation. they must not have looked at this video. it's fine i am sure jared doesn't care at all but i just don't see it but hey u guys know more than me. i am no ref but doen't he have to land in danger to be a 5 point throw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 lol well if head to head win isn't good he's a state champ and all-american. molloy went what 3-2 at fargo with one loss to the 5th placer and one loss to a guy that went 2-2. oh ya and as high as number 7 in the nation. they must not have looked at this video. it's fine i am sure jared doesn't care at all but i just don't see it but hey u guys know more than me That "one guy" also got second in the state of Pennsylvania and placed 5th at the Super 32, ergo he was no slouch as you would suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachpierson Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 That "one guy" also got second in the state of Pennsylvania and placed 5th at the Super 32, ergo he was no slouch as you would suggest. lol well please pick out the only thing i said that helps your case don't even say anything about the other points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 Here is the rest lol well if head to head win isn't good he's a state champ Molloy is too and all-american Molloy won Folkstyle Nationals. molloy went what 3-2 at fargo with one loss to the 5th placer and one loss to a guy that went 2-2. oh ya and as high as number 7 in the nation. they must not have looked at this video. it's fine i am sure jared doesn't care at all but i just don't see it but hey u guys know more than me. i am no ref but doen't he have to land in danger to be a 5 point throw? One of two things should have happend 1. Five point throw and Molloy awarded the period 2. Molloy having a 5-0 lead in that period. Instead Molloy was only awarded one point. Both are very talented wrestlers and both COULD be #1, but there can only be one #1 ranked wrestler. I have nothing against either wrestler as they are both good kids and have great families. At the very least I should be more for McKinley since Molloy's dad thought I was Travis Barroquillo's dad last year and that is quite an insult! ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachpierson Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Here is the rest Both are very talented wrestlers and both COULD be #1, but there can only be one #1 ranked wrestler. I have nothing against either wrestler as they are both good kids and have great families. At the very least I should be more for McKinley since Molloy's dad thought I was Travis Barroquillo's dad last year and that is quite an insult! ;D ya too bad one's not wrestling yet or we could compare performances. Hope to see Molloy on the mat soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 I doubt we will be able to compare in season performances between them. They both will probably only be challenged at semi-state and state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 At the very least I should be more for McKinley since Molloy's dad thought I was Travis Barroquillo's dad last year and that is quite an insult! ;D An insult to you or to Barroquillo's dad? ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 An insult to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynx 8 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Now that?s solved could you please answer my question ??? Question about 220 Keith Knura was ranked #1 in the preseason mag. was wondering what criteria put Tyler Karl over Keith for the #1 spot. in the last month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 Now thats solved could you please answer my question ??? Question about 220 Keith Knura was ranked #1 in the preseason mag. was wondering what criteria put Tyler Karl over Keith for the #1 spot. in the last month I do not know as I was not involved in that decision or discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Kral is from the region and region rats are tuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynx 8 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Kral is from the region and region rats are tuff Good argument but didn?t the Evansville semi state dominate in the state champ category last year THAT JUST HAPPENED ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 I think I can hear all the region rats circling the wagons, better be prepared for an onslaught! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynx 8 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 The region know's ever since Pendoski moved down here the regions secrets have been revealed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 I don't feel it's that big of a deal who is #1; here is what I'm saying. Y2 says "It is asinine to not use a head to head result between the two to determine their rankings." There was a head to head, but somehow rankings chose to disregard the result. I think this is where the confusion arises. Like I said watch the match. The good thing about the rankings is that they can look deeper into the results than just what is on paper. I know you have been around enough wrestling to see 3-0 butt whoopings and really close 7-2 matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 152 has two new castle wrestlers in the top 10. Thats one heck of a jv wrestler... ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 The reason for Molloy over McKinley is that Molloy basically beat him at freestyle state...take out the absolutely horrible call in the first period and it is a two period win for Molloy. This sounds like an argument my best friend would make to me on some subect other than wrestling. My question back to him is always the same: Who got the win and who got the loss? Think it's kind of odd that, because there is question as to the validity of calls during said match, the person in charge of the rankings is going to disregard the actual outcome of a match (who actually won) and go with whom he thinks should have won. If something carzy happens in a state finals match (everyone in the crowd can see it but the two refs on the mat missed it for some reason) and the kid who gets crowned champ benefited from said "bad call," will he or won't he be the state champ? Will there be an asterick next to his name on the IHSAA website? If this is the support for one wrestler being ranked over another, it's pretty flimsy. I'd rather hear "I think the other guy is better." That would be more satifying to me and less open to debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WC182Dad Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I would say that Kral is the winner in that match Iv watched them both over the years and they both have wrestled my son Kral has the size and stregth and wrestling with Shrewsbury his fresh year he knows what it takes to be the champ. Again just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 This sounds like an argument my best friend would make to me on some subect other than wrestling. My question back to him is always the same: Who got the win and who got the loss? Think it's kind of odd that, because there is question as to the validity of calls during said match, the person in charge of the rankings is going to disregard the actual outcome of a match (who actually won) and go with whom he thinks should have won. If something carzy happens in a state finals match (everyone in the crowd can see it but the two refs on the mat missed it for some reason) and the kid who gets crowned champ benefited from said "bad call," will he or won't he be the state champ? Will there be an asterick next to his name on the IHSAA website? If this is the support for one wrestler being ranked over another, it's pretty flimsy. I'd rather hear "I think the other guy is better." That would be more satifying to me and less open to debate. I think by disregarding the actual outcome he is saying that he thinks the other guy is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WC182Dad Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 JMAC will win know doubt the boy benchs over 250 at his weight he wrestled Kieffer last year and won every match but once I do not think Molloy would beat Josh.. He has problems making weight when Jared is on top of it all, there is NO way Jared will lose that match when or if they wrestle again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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