AJ Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 2. I think Coach V put the blame on himself to pasify the parents and his fans, but someone on his coaching staff should of known the rules even if he was confused about them. He should have known the rules. He is the head coach. 4. Congratulations to the CP Team on an impressive year and for very exciting match against MD. Agree... It was a great dual... very exciting... full of drama and intrigue... this incident shouldnt take away from the fact it one an absolute great dual!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boot Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 exactly. The discussion was on seeding. Theoretically Castle could be #2 and MD could be #1 and only 1 would get to state. If we're only concerned with finding #1 the current format works great. If we want to find the top 2 or top 4 it does not. That would also get more teams involved and make more money, the state's guiding light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slice60 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Vlink & his staff screwed up. In fact, this is probably the biggest coaching blunder in IHSAA history-- all sports included. Just think about it, a 2-time undefeated state champion didn't get to wrestle because the coaching staff flat-out didn't know the rules. Unbelievable. Instead of a state champ, they had to send a JV kid to the slaughter against the state runner-up. Obviously, Vlink has built a powerhouse program but how does he look those kids in the eye today? On another day, maybe Vlink has a legitimate beef about medals...but when YOU are the reason your team lost, just shut up & go home. On the other hand, maybe he's right & only the champions & runner-ups should get medals. In other team sports where the State Finals is a one game format, do the Semi State losers get medals? I doubt it. Seeding wouldn't work. 1) No other IHSAA team tourney does it. 2) There would be more arguments over who gets seeded 6th-7th-8th than at the top. 3) Blind draw for Team State IS the only fair format. There are many examples of "unfair" sectional matchups due to geography-- MD/Reitz, Mish/Penn, CP/Merr-- but that's just the way it goes. Forgive me for kicking CP while it's down, but this is not the first example of a Crown Point team underachieving recently. CP baseball had several top-ranked teams but no state finals appearances. CP football had some great teams but never advanced far. Before Saturday, CP had destroyed everyone-- 43-15 over Mish, 50-14 over Cath, 45-12 over Frank, 48-20 & 46-8 over Merr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robref Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 What about treating team state, if it even exists next year, the same way as the NCAA individual tourney. In addition to the regional qualifiers have wild cards based on rankings. Let Reitz, Castle, Mishawaka, New Castle, Yorktown, or any other of the contenders have a shot. Who's to say the finals might not be Castle vs MD or Mishawaka vs Penn. I guess that's assuming we care about more than just #1. My bad. I'd go for that! Make it a 2 Day Event. It would probably make a ton of money as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntegratedCarp Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 While I don't think he has any room to complain in this case, since he screwed up by not knowing the rules, I do agree that it would make more sense to put the North teams on one side of the bracket, and the South teams on the other half. I would have had it as CP vs Delphi, Penn vs Bellmont, PM vs LN, and EMD vs Roncalli. Don't we do that in every other team sport? Pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FC118 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 While I agree it would be nice to seed the event I do think CP ended up where they were suppose to on that day. Even with the Roach mess up their is a good chance they still lost to MD. MD then lost to LN. LN then lost to PM. So basically on the day it could be argued that CP was the 4th best team on the day behind at least 1st Perry, 2nd Lawrence North, and 3rd Mater Dei. That doesn't even account for a talented Penn on the other side of the bracket that gave PM a very close match. While CP had a great team this year they just were not able to put enough together to win the team title on Saturday. On the other side of things Lawrence North was able to put everything together and exceed most people expectation and beat MD to make the finals. What, no love for the Rebels? They only lost two duals all season, both to Perry. They wrestled the Falcions really tough, much better showing than LN in the finals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach77 Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Before Saturday, CP had destroyed everyone-- 43-15 over Mish, 50-14 over Cath, 45-12 over Frank, 48-20 & 46-8 over Merr. I would also like to point out to you that Mater Dei and Perry Meridian also beat many of those same schools by the same scores so whats your point? You don't want to kick a team when its down yet that is exactly what you do. The thing is many thought this field was a three horse race and the other schools involved came in and wrestled very well to make team state very interesting this year. Also it has been proven that even if Roach wrestled at 145 or 152 they still would have lost to a very good MD team so once again my point of this thread was to get us to look at the rules of a dual meet trny vs the individual trny which seems to be lost on some people based on an interview Coach Vlink gave right after the MD match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash513 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I would also like to point out to you that Mater Dei and Perry Meridian also beat many of those same schools by the same scores so whats your point? You don't want to kick a team when its down yet that is exactly what you do. The thing is many thought this field was a three horse race and the other schools involved came in and wrestled very well to make team state very interesting this year. Also it has been proven that even if Roach wrestled at 145 or 152 they still would have lost to a very good MD team so once again my point of this thread was to get us to look at the rules of a dual meet trny vs the individual trny which seems to be lost on some people based on an interview Coach Vlink gave right after the MD match. Be careful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 What, no love for the Rebels? They only lost two duals all season, both to Perry. They wrestled the Falcions really tough, much better showing than LN in the finals! Sorry was meaning no disrespect for leaving a talented Roncolli team off the list. Just didn't see the reason to list all of the team placement possibilities when the purpose was to point out CP by performance on the day may not have been solid enough to garner them one of the top medals on the day. CP was a stellar team all year, but again didn't preform as they needed to on Saturday to show they were outright one of the top 2 or even top 3 teams in the state as the article eluded they deserved to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjax Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Sorry was meaning no disrespect for leaving a talented Roncolli team off the list. Just didn't see the reason to list all of the team placement possibilities when the purpose was to point out CP by performance on the day may not have been solid enough to garner them one of the top medals on the day. CP was a stellar team all year, but again didn't preform as they needed to on Saturday to show they were outright one of the top 2 or even top 3 teams in the state as the article eluded they deserved to be. From my perspective Crown Point's wrestlers all performed at or above expectations except for maybe one. I saw somewhere else where someone said Crown Point underperformed. I think they just lost by 5 without their two time state champ to a very talented Mater Dei team who most people on here were picking to win. Now, the whole Roach at 160 situation is a whole 'nother story, but I think the CP wrestlers themselves performed admirably. They have noting to hang their heads over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 What, no love for the Rebels? They only lost two duals all season, both to Perry. They wrestled the Falcions really tough, much better showing than LN in the finals! If you are going to rationalize that way, CP's only loss of the year came on Saturday to EMD and EMD's only loss of the year came on Saturday to LN so what does that say about LN?.....Nothing, they just wrestled a better second round match than EMD. If you are going to base results off of prior performance then why bother wrestling the matches, just have the three undefeated teams wrestle round robin to see who gets first, the other 5 can go home. That seems to be what alot of people thought would happen this weekend, problem is, Lawrence North never got the "Memo"! ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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