wrestler60160 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Maybe we should class academics also, then we can teach the kids that they are not as smart as they are in a big school. I mean if a kid doesn't think he is capable of being the best, why try. If a kid or team doesn't make it to state, well I am sure they probably has different plans for their life. How many of these kids wrestle after high school anyway? Most State Champs live and breathe the sport 12 months a year, I did say most. It's a great sport but if we start breaking it down, there will be middle school kids out there that could beat small school state place winners. Because there will be kids that couldn't make it out of their original sectionals, and now place at small class state. I'm not sure what that would do for the sport. I feel that one state champ show truly who is the Indiana State Champion. Okay all, start stoning me.......... ;D Oh I forgot,they will never make as much money then the big school graduates either..... :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Maybe we should class academics also, then we can teach the kids that they are not as smart as they are in a big school. Funny you mention this because this is precisely where education is going under the Daniels/Bennett plan. Private/Charter schools will start receiving state money through the voucher system. The best and the brightest will be siphoned from the public schools leaving them to be educational ghettos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestler60160 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 But they will have some great athletic programs...... : And for the record, I am from a Large school with a very successful program, so I do not feel the small school pain.........sorry....... :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrick Snyder Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 AJ, I was being sarcastic about the letter obviously...I felt you were stating your opinion that team state was gone as a fact. It is NOT a fact that Team State is gone. Heard today that it is back for next year...I don't know anything can happen... Karl, I guess we disagree about how to change the system...you think it is better to start over sort of...you are a smart guy....so am I! haha...We disagree about the route to take...I think we must keep team state to change it... Everyone, If you are a fan, parent, coach or wrestler from a smaller school and don't care about Team State ...I understand that now. The current Team State format is flawed and unfair to smaller schools... I get that...If you are a coach from a small school and don't care about Team State because you think you can't get there, I understand that to a certain extent...That is why it needs to be classed... For those of you saying that even if team state is classed the same schools from the different classes will make team state each year and that's why I don't want a classed team state either. DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE SAME TEAMS BEING THERE! If team state is classed and the same teams keep making it, ask yourself why they are beating you and do something about it...those schools would have similar enrollment as you and there is no reason you can not compete with them! Please don't throw the mater dei arguement out there...they are the exception. If team state is classed and the same teams keep making it and winning it against other schools their size that means the BEST teams are consistenlty qualifiying and winning it. Why is that a bad thing? If you can't compete with schools your size, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Just my opinion. Snyder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode#31 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 For those of you saying that even if team state is classed the same schools from the different classes will make team state each year and that's why I don't want a classed team state either. DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE SAME TEAMS BEING THERE! If team state is classed and the same teams keep making it, ask yourself why they are beating you and do something about it...those schools would have simlimlar enrollment as you and there is no reason you can not compete with them! Please don't throw the mater dei arguement out there...they are the exception. If team state is classed and the same teams keep making it and winning it against other schools their size that means the BEST teams are consistenlty qualifiying and winning it. Why is that a bad thing? If you can't compete with schools your size, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Just my opinion. Snyder wahoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjax Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I think plenty of people have said that by getting rid of the current flawed system, it would force coaches to come up with a better system that would potentially allow ALL schools to have a shot at a team state title as well as being profitable to the IHSAA. By keeping the current system, there is the distinct possibility that many schools and the IHSAA would not look to fix anything. If you support this line of thinking, eliminating the current system is crucial to 'fixing' the team dual state tournament. You don't blow up your house in order to remodel your kitchen. In all seriousness, though, I believe eliminating team state is the worst possible route to improving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 You don't blow up your house in order to remodel your kitchen. In all seriousness, though, I believe eliminating team state is the worst possible route to improving it. This isn't about remodeling just the kitchen, its the bedrooms, bathrooms and living room too. The question remains whether keeping the current system or having it abolished will spark more change. I personally feel that the coaches in the state need a wakeup call and if team state were abolished it would spark more change. Others feel the opposite way.... I guess we will wait and see in the coming months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstemv81 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 We can class team state and remodel the new house all we want but in the end it will be Mater Dei on the new couch, not going anywhere - and without Crown Point or LN or Perry to kick her out. I forgot, Yorktown will be living on the LazyBoy. More seriously, instead of changing something that works, how about adding something for the small schools. A statewide small school invite of Indiana's enrollment challenged schools. Ohio has a "Top Gun" dual tournament of powerhouses every year. Maybe we could have "Little Guns" or something along those lines - in early December before the weather gets too bad to travel statewide. Winner recognized as IHSWCA small school state champs. I hope this is a suggestion everyone could get behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 How about all the small schools just drop their programs so we don't have to hear them bitch and moan all the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstemv81 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Not a constructive response. I don't want to hear anyone bitching and moaning. I want to see small schools get with the program and do whatever Indian Creek is doing right. And with this so-called unfair current system they had three finalists under the lights. I notice that Y2 nicked me for yet another cool point. Maybe we should have a separate class for everyone in the single class doghouse. I can't compete against "The Man" who runs the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 So you think Indian Creek should be the gold standard of small school wrestling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstemv81 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 They are this year in terms of producing some outstanding individual success stories. Team state is a different animal, but I'm looking for solutions that might add to our traditions, not wreck them. In addition to regular season small school duals suggested above it might also be an idea for a small school shootout on the same weekend as team state, by invite only, to the top eight small schools previously eliminated from the IHSAA team state series. Not sure how this would work, possibly by ranking/polling to produce the eight geographic invitee teams to be hosted at a central location. Think Center Grove rival nearby for small schools. How about Beech Grove as host school? Recognized by IHSWCA if not IHSAA. I'm trying to be constructive here. I've got nothing against small schools. What's not to like? I'd love to see a bunch of little Bellmonts spring up but shielding them from big school competition probably isn't the way to do this. UPDATE: See MattM's post in "Never, never, never class individual state" for similar idea, executed better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Do you really know much about Indian Creek? Just four years ago they didn't even have one state qualifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M109R Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I think if coaches from small schools (Y2) spent as much time getting youth programs and Club wrestling started in there area, as they do whining about the same schools going to team state every year . They would actually change that statistic . Look at what Harper done at Penn , in only a few short years . He could of easily whined about never being able to get past Mishawaka in the tournement . Instead he done what Coach Snyder said (Do something about it) . It all really starts at the Elementary level , getting kids interested . It can be done ANYWHERE . If your not willing to put in the time to do it , than quit your whining . The electricity of Team state is second to none , and we need to keep it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 I think if all these people with all the answers were coaches Indiana would be the best wrestling state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstemv81 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Penn isn't a very good example for the single class argument - they're huge. Indian Creek went from zero qualifiers four short years ago to three under the lights. I'm not sure how big Delphi is but I never heard of them until recently and they're making it to Team State now, and with a couple kids under the lights in the last two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I saw the Iowa state finals on TV and they had no spotlight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrower17 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I will go to Between the Buns for lunch anyway, haha! sorry man but that closed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstemv81 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Iowa probably also had all their finals matches running at the same time. Fail. Indiana does it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Iowa probably also had all their finals matches running at the same time. Fail. Indiana does it right. I know, what could they or the 17k in the wells fargo arena be thinking. The silence was deafening as the obviously confused fans had no idea what was going on. Worse yet, they broadcasted the entire finals with 4 screens on my TV. One showing each of the 3 finals and the 4th screen had a clock and score for each of the 3 finals match. If I didn't know my colors I would have been completely lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hawaiian Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 So you think Indian Creek should be the gold standard of small school wrestling? Y2, When is the last time you had a state placer or a state champ? You sure are big on down playing these other schools about your size that has some of these kids that are getting it done. Why are they having kids getting to the podium while at this huge disadvantage? I'm not against classing as I used to be, but if you used the same amount of energy convincing your kids they can win against the great powers as you do convincing everyone else you cant, then maybe you could do what Indian Creek has done. I don't care what you tell them in the room about beating the large school athletes, because if they read your threads they would know you don't feel they can do it and that's sad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I think the Big Hawaiian should be Y2's life coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 I need one of those, how about it mr hawaiian? By the way last year I coached a 3rd place finisher. Is that good enough for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 How about all the small schools just drop their programs so we don't have to hear them bitch and moan all the time? How about just the ones that bitch and moan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestler60160 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I think the Big Hawaiian should be Y2's life coach. I bet that would be a helluva party:..... ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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