Walter Sobchak Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Brown Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I know that the criteria the is used for seeding is: returning wt class champion or runner-up, common opponents, and winning percertage. The coaches may also vote. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Sobchak Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Enjoying my coffee!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Who is the one kid's lone loss to? If the other kid beat him then he will get the #1 seed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Sobchak Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 You want a toe? I can get you a toe... there are ways dude, you don't want to know!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I've sat in on some very competitive seeding meetings over the years. Remember, the seeding criteria is only a guideline and may be circumvented by a coaches vote or consession. I've even seen coaches refuse to offer their kids up for seed, yet, have their kid seeded by the consensus of the other coaches. There are all types of strategies in these meetings and most coaches will attempt to jockey around to get the best draw for their kids and team, not necessarily the true balance of a bracket that some would argue for and most would like to see (i.e. Keiffer v. Wright sectional match-up). A lot of times it comes down to the simple principles of democracy with civil diplomacy, debate, and the comon vote. Okay, maybe not so simple. : There is no "coach's vote" vote in the criteria. The final criteria is best record and that should settle it unless the percentages are the same and then it is generally a draw or coin toss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlittlejohn Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Sorry for the misinformation, maybe those meetings weren't conducted properly or the guidelines/rules have changed, but, I do remember those types of situations (votes) taking place. Specifically at the Indianapolis City Tournament seeding meetings in the early to mid '80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I have a kid who will wrestle in sectional... he has beat everyone in his weight except two kids... one kid has been out all year due to injury and has a record or 10-1. We have not faced this kid, but I am pretty certain we can beat him... the other kid we have lost to wrestles a very tough schedule and has multiple losses (4or5) I think... can our coach lobby to get my kid the #4 seed to wrestle the 10-1 kid? What can the coach do who has the kid with 4 losses to get the number one seed? We have lost to him twice both times by one point.....I would prefer not to get the number 3 seed if the kid we have lost to gets the #2? Suggestions? My suggestion is not too ask on this public b/c of I'm any of the other coaches, I'm lobbying to get your guy the 2 or 3 now. It's not sandbagging when you make it public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Sobchak Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Man Trible b and you are going to be in that meeting... dang it!! I will tell the coach to watch out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Hahaha, TSkin is going to be doing all of the talking. I'm just going for the Pizza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Sobchak Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Isn't it close to the in and out burger? You should go there, they have great burgers!! Hopefully Tskin will do his homework like little larry!!!!! There is no "coach's vote" vote in the criteria. The final criteria is best record and that should settle it unless the percentages are the same and then it is generally a draw or coin toss. Why have meetings then? Isn't the idea to seperate the best wrestlers? If it is so cut and dry, each coach emails wrestlers information, who they have lost to, common opponents they have records against blah blah blah.... then the host ad seeds wrestlers with the information, sends back to coaches they check it over, make suggestions, the ad makes and changes according to seeding "criteria" and it is done.... If all things else are equal, then the one with the mom who has green toepolish wins the seed!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Isn't it close to the in and out burger? You should go there, they have great burgers!! Hopefully Tskin will do his homework like little larry!!!!! Why have meetings then? Isn't the idea to seperate the best wrestlers? If it is so cut and dry, each coach emails wrestlers information, who they have lost to, common opponents they have records against blah blah blah.... then the host ad seeds wrestlers with the information, sends back to coaches they check it over, make suggestions, the ad makes and changes according to seeding "criteria" and it is done.... If all things else are equal, then the one with the mom who has green toepolish wins the seed!!!!! It would be easy if all coaches did send everything in, but they all would not just like they all do not participate in surveys and other things. Even if everything were mailed in there would still be a meeting of sorts in the host schools office where the AD might sort through it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Sobchak Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Agreed...my buddies did not die face down in the muck for coaches to not turn in their surveys!!! We are talking about unchecked aggression across this line you do not cross!!! Seed the wrestlers so that the best are seperated...Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthesame219 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 What if someone was a runner up in one class, but moved up in a weight class? does this criteria still apply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 What if someone was a runner up in one class, but moved up in a weight class? does this criteria still apply? It must be the same weight class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwkwrestler12 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 What if you have a champ or runner-up(wrestler A) who got beat by a kid(wrestler in his sectional, but that kid(wrestler got beat by another person(wrestler C) in the sectional. Wrestler A and Wrestler C have not wrestled. Who gets #1, #2, #2 seeds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewrestlingdude Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Thats a lot of ins and a lot of out and a lot of what have yous..... Head to head is first so this is a three way tie... then it goes to common opponents, then it would go to returning champ or runner up in same weight class then record... I think but this is a lot of information in ole duders head man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Sobchak Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Coaches should strive to keep open minds when seedings are being decided. The main objective of seeding is to have outstanding wrestlers separated in the brackets so that they will not meet each other until the finals. Seeding shall be based upon the wrestler's proven ability and not upon the desire for unwarranted advantage. 6. Consideration for determining seeded wrestlers is given in order of importance: a. Head to head competition; (The wrestler with the most head to head wins gets the seed. If they have beaten each other an equal number of times, then the winner of the last match gets the seed.); b. Record against common opponents; c. A returning champion or runner-up in the same weight class; d. A contestant with the best overall record (winning percentage) who has wrestled at least 10 matches; NOTE: A wrestler with less than ten matches may not be seeded ahead of a wrestler with at least ten matches and a winning record unless he/she meets criteria in a, b or c. A wrestler with a losing record may not be seeded unless he/she meets criteria a, b or c unless there are less than six (6) wrestlers in the bracket. This is taken out of the winter bulletin.... wrestler with at least ten matches and a winning record unless he/she meets criteria in a, b or c. A wrestler with a losing record may not be seeded unless he/she meets criteria a, b or c unless there are less than six (6) wrestlers in the bracket. 7. A seeded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummels Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 So in a bracket where few have wrestled each other and do not have common opponents, it all comes down to Win %? Quality wins or strength of schedule do not come into play? I heard it is pretty straight forward and little coach input, so I'm assuming that is correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 So in a bracket where few have wrestled each other and do not have common opponents, it all comes down to Win %? Quality wins or strength of schedule do not come into play? I heard it is pretty straight forward and little coach input, so I'm assuming that is correct? Heck because of no common opponents and same winning percentage we had 2-3 coin flips determine it. Been a few year since we've seen it, but it happened a few times because of guys shuffling weight classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Sobchak Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Strength of schedule is not taking into account.... it is not the BCS system. Nor is it taken into account what weight the wins came from. More coaches need to make a conscious effort to wrestle everyone in their sectional. Am I wrong!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busstogate Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 "More coaches need to make a conscious effort to wrestle everyone on their schedule" We do the best we can, but sometimes, my guys just don't feel like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Sobchak Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 The schedule is not the issue... the sectional is... also, Dude schedule is not the preferred nomanclature... asian american please. Nice catch busstogate.... way to bussto me out!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 More coaches need to make a conscious effort to wrestle everyone in their sectional. Am I wrong!! I would say most coaches do schedule most if not all sectional opponents at some point during the season. The issue that results in the later criteria having to be used usually comes from wrestlers moving weight classes, varsity and JV shuffling spots, injury/sickness during that dual meet, or the deaded round robin where you beat the guy, who beat a guy, who beat you. These issue you really can't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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