Cale Hoover Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Wrestling Community: I hope all teams are off to a great start to their seasons. We have one week of practice down and excitement is high as we all try to piece together line ups and figure out weight classes. The annual fall clinic held at Warren Central was a success. We would like to thank Les Gutches, the IU and Purdue Coaching staffs, the, NWCA, Scott Vlink, Trent McCormick, and Jim Harshaw of Riot Sports for their presentations. I personally would like to thank Trent McCormick, JD Minch, Greg Gastineau, Brett Clark, and Steve Livingston for their work in planning the clinic. The major topic of our business meeting concerned the status of our team state tournament. I have had many conversations with coaches around the state and I will try to summarize the issue below. 1. The team state tournament is in jeopardy. This is a financial issue. Attendance has decreased from 5000-6000 to an all-time low of 1250 last year. I believe it runs deeper than just the economy or Ev. Mater Dei making the final 8. If we want to save the tournament we must be in attendance. 2. I would be supportive of both a classed team and individual tournament. I know this is controversial, but in my opinion this would be the greatest boost in growth and interest we could ever give wrestling in our state. 3. I will not be making a proposal for any type of class wrestling this year unless the political landscape has greatly changed by April. We are in no position politically to propose something of this magnitude. We must be able to walk into a proposal meeting already knowing the outcome. If we go in hoping things will go our way we will leave disappointed. Those of you who were interested in serving on the Team State committee will be contacted by VP Trent McCormick soon. We will be proposing a list of committee members to the Regional Representatives and IHSWCA members who are in attendance at our meeting this Sunday. At that point the Team State committee will begin its work. Thank you. Cale Hoover President, IHSWCA Hooverc1@centergrove.k12.in.us 317-881-0581 ext. 4287 317-502-8796 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW177 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 I am new to Indiana. I coached for a number of years in WA state and recently in Alaska. I am the new head coach at Decatur Central. I have a couple of questions that hopefully can start some discussion. 1. Why as a sport don't we emphasize duals during the year? One match in front of a good crowd is like three in the losers bracket of some tournament with no one really watching you. If everyone wrestled their football conference schedule, or something approximating it we could build momentum towards the state tournament. I have no idea what other schedules look like, but I only have two home duals. With that schedule how would I ever build a fan base? 2. Why doesn't Indiana have JV qualifier tournaments? I had challenges yesterday and have several kids who are varsity caliber, but are behind other kids. With a JV qualifier at least I could point to that and tell them they will get a shot. In WA state team mates have wrestled for the state championship before. Everyone has to have had a JV kid who deserved to be varsity, but never got a shot. 3. Why isn't there more girls wrestling? WA state has a girls state tournament in conjuction with the boys. Women wrestle in the Olympics. I have a girl who turned out this year and my AD was shocked. She phoned around Marion County and says no one else has a single girl. It's 2010! If 40 years ago wrestlers would have pushed for women's wrestling maybe title nine wouldn't have forced all the cuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 All three are very good questions. I would be interested in the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadet130 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Duals are emphasized during weekend superduals. Weekday duals means only one match and you are only allotted a certain amount of "points" for your duals and tournaments. Teams get more matches by doing superduals and tournaments. Invite your fans to your superduals (or host some superduals yourself). I would never really be interested to see two teammates square off for a state title in all honesty. I don't really know what else to say about that topic. No one is telling girls that they can't wrestle. Every high school team I coached in Indiana had at least one girl on it at some point of the season. We can't have a girls state championships when there are only a handful of girls wrestling. The IHSAA wouldn't likely go on a limb and take a financial hit by attempting to host a girls state championships tournament to attempt to increase the number of female wrestlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW177 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 We are going to Super Duals also. I'm just talking from a pure fan stand point. Maximizing the number of matches kids get is not always the best thing for the sport as a whole. Super duals are not casual fan friendly. I'm willing to sit and watch a bunch of strangers wrestle all day Saturday. If we are going to grow the sport we have to recognize most fans want their entertainment quick and easy. I'm not interested in two teammates wrestling for the state title either. That was just an example. I'm interested in promoting 28 spots instead of 14. This is purely about getting more kids involved and keeping them involved in wrestling. What do you currently tell a senior who ends up the odd man out? Also I want the best kids at state period. If this means the top teams get more kids then the rest of us need to work to elevate our programs. It took years of steady growth for WA to add the girls tournament. I just think for the sake of the sport coaches should promote girls wrestling. The only sport in this day and age that can afford to exclude half the population is football. Soccer has passed wrestling in the USA at the college and high school level because it is fan friendly. Wrestling has become less fan friendly over the years. I just think we need to try and swing it back. Even if it means five less matches wrestled during the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Hoover Posted November 17, 2010 Author Share Posted November 17, 2010 1. Each coach gets to set his own schedule. No one, not even the IHSAA can prevent you from scheduling as many duals as you like. 2. The idea of a JV qualifier has not been discussed during my time as a coach. I can tell you we would have a difficult time with the IHSAA on this one. 3. Girls wrestling is struggling to grow here for many reasons. Certainly culture is to blame for some of it. Also, the IHSAA has not been interested in adding sports as of late, however, with the status of gymnastics up in the air this might change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW177 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 1. I am going to work on my schedule in the next few years. The thing I prefer about WA is a forced league schedule. This keeps wrestling from going tournament only and thus further eroding its fan base. I truly believe we are our own worst enemy. I've heard lots of coaches say they would drop duals altogether. If we lose the team state series that argument will grow. I think we have to stop that sentiment to grow the sport. 2. It's shocking that a JV qualifier has never come up. Many states have had that system for 20 years. Obviously there are lots of opinions about it. I think if you polled states that have adopted it they would overwhelmingly support it. The IHSAA supporting it is another story. I would offer to drop a date to add it. Go from 18 dates to 17 dates. Again this is just my opinion. 3. I use to be staunchly against girls wrestling. However, after having several girls have a good experience with it I was finally swayed. I've had at least one girl for years now and there are times I miss the boys only side of wrestling, but I think for the good of the sport we need to work towards changing those attitudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 2. It's shocking that a JV qualifier has never come up. Many states have had that system for 20 years. Obviously there are lots of opinions about it. I think if you polled states that have adopted it they would overwhelmingly support it. The IHSAA supporting it is another story. I would offer to drop a date to add it. Go from 18 dates to 17 dates. Again this is just my opinion. Be prepared for hundreds of comments attacking your work ethic, manhood, politics, sexuality, etc. Anything new or different has a difficult time in this state, and not just with the IHSAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Be prepared for hundreds of comments attacking your work ethic, manhood, politics, sexuality, etc. Anything new or different has a difficult time in this state, and not just with the IHSAA. Please elaborate instead of taking pot shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 On which point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 1. Why as a sport don't we emphasize duals during the year? One match in front of a good crowd is like three in the losers bracket of some tournament with no one really watching you. If everyone wrestled their football conference schedule, or something approximating it we could build momentum towards the state tournament. I have no idea what other schedules look like, but I only have two home duals. With that schedule how would I ever build a fan base? Being an old wrestler from the late seventies and an excoach from the early eighties and then being away from the sport for 25 years, this is something that I had wondered myself. That is how you get a fan base. The reality is, not everyone is into sitting in a gym for five hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Fan Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 I kind of agree with more home duals and include a full JV dual before the Varsity dual, we used to do this back in the eighties where I wrestled and we had a JV conference meet. If you have both varsity and JV parents and fans you have close to doubled you regular varsity only match attendance. Also this is good for the kids on JV getting those matches, helps keep them in the sport. But it's difficult these days it seems, atleast for a smaller school like ours to get enough kids out to fill a varsity as well as a JV team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Having more JV oppertunities is always big for keeping the JV kids out for the team and ready to step into a varsity roll if needed. For as hard as many work daily in practice if the kid doesn't get at least a few matches a year to show his skills I can see why some question if being on the team is worth the effort. I do see a need for more JV oppertunities throughout the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMAWRESTLER Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 I for one wish we had more duals. our team drops the spotlight and makes it very cool to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strub1 Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Women's wrestling has no way to grow unless some format is officially put in place. RW177 can comment about Washington. The women's tournament was created there and the numbers have grown every year. Unless the women wrestle 103 or 112, they have a very tiny chance of ever making the state tournament. Most women join the team because they like to wrestle, but the numbers have no way of growing unless they are able to compete. Washington took the step of setting up the tournaments for the women and required the women to start wrestling other women. This has also been done in Tennessee with over 100 women participating in their first state tournament. What puzzles me is that the IHSAA doesn't even keep track of how many women are wrestling in Indiana. So when you see estimates of women wrestling across the US, these numbers do not include any from Indiana or several other states that do not keep track. Add women's wrestling would also be very simple, in that the schools have the mats, coaches, uniforms, and meets all in place already. Anything unique to create for just women's wrestling would come from it's growth to the point that it would need separate tournaments or meets. The ISWA and USGWA are having women's tournaments and all women wrestling need to make an effort to attend to show the IHSAA that women's wrestling is growing. The USGWA tournament this year at Yorktown HS is being held the day after IHSAA individual state (2/20) and will have women from other states there competing and the ISWA state tournament at Ben Davis HS will be a great competition for just our IN women. Coaches, parents & everyone tell any women wrestlers that you come in contact with to attend any and all women's events to help build numbers. Not only to help increase women's wrestling, but to gain experience and to compete with other women wrestlers. Darren Strub, ISWA Women's Director Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 A female pole vaulter had to sue the IHSAA to make them add it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW177 Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 The only sure way to add girls wrestling is to promote it as coaches across the board. I'm as guilty as anyone. This year when I handed out my youth flyers I made enough for the boys and told schools to give them to girls if they wanted them. Next year I'm going to make a concerted push for elementary girls. At the high school level I'm going to set a goal of five girls. If every team in Indiana had five girls the IHSAA would take notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 RW177, The sad part is most Indiana people still live in the 1950's where Milan ruled the basketball landscape. Getting the majority of coaches and fans on board with girls wrestling would be worse than promoting class wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Y2, Are you referring to the wrestling community or just the IHSAA in general? By the way Biceps lives a stones throw away from this great establishment: Maybe we can all meet there sometime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I am referring to the wrestling community in general. Our AD has actually mentioned girls wrestling to our wrestling coach in a casual conversation just this past fall. That will be a great place to meet and plan our taking over the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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