Reasons for a class system for team state

[pin2win1]

you said "at most 2".  That is not a subjective statement.

 

pretty sure i said "a couple at most" and had you been able to hear tone, you would have realized it was definately a subjective statement..... if i wanted to say 2 i would have said 2, not a couple.

 

 

[KarlHungus]

 

Well lets look at the sectional and regional riley has...... Umm Mishawaka and Penn ummm anyone else... umm no.... and they take how many per sectional? Four.... .ok, so they shoudl get alot of guys out of sectional.....

 

Now the regional.... who is there that is any good.... umm Mishawaka and Penn umm anyone else? No... they take how many from each regional to ss? 4

 

Yeah they better get a decent amount to SS with that road if they are going to be labled as good.

 

Much harder road than many sectional and regionals.  You make it sound like Washington and Adams are horrible.  They are not.  Mish. Marian, SB St. Joe are horrible.

 

You talk about over generalizing and then you throw all SB schools under the bus and say they are larger schools that are not very good.  In fact, two of the schools are pretty darn good and the other two are solid.

[KarlHungus]

Maybe for the best or the best schools which tend to be larger on a whole... However, if this were the case jsut because a school was large, then why are south bend wrestlers not doing well? Heck they can even somewhat recruit within their city. These are lareger schools, and yet we have maybe 2 state qualfiers coming out of each one at best. So in that situation, I think Garrett is pretty equal to SB schools, despite being smaller.

 

I mean if we are going to fix the "disadvantage" to individuals in the small schools how do we fix them at the larger schools like the SB schools?

 

I mean we are totally over generalizing here.

 

Looks like a 2 to me???? Am i twisting your numbers or putting words in your mouth?

[pin2win1]

Clay and Riley have a couple good individuals a year at most

 

my direct quote.... i don't see 2 in there at all....

 

You talk about over generalizing and then you throw all SB schools under the bus and say they are larger schools that are not very good.  In fact, two of the schools are pretty darn good and the other two are solid.

 

Maybe I just don't respect the SB programs..... but the Mishawaka sectional is rather easy to get out of for schools like Riley and Clay..... Adams and Washington are I hate to use this term for high schoolers, but as schools they are bad...... the other 3 you mentioned, might be described as Horrendous.

 

 

[pin2win1]

ok yeah, cause that was a definitive statement.... look at the context and you could see it was a stright up guess without looking deeply into it.

[KarlHungus]

my direct quote.... i don't see 2 in there at all....

 

 

I saw that quote but I also quoted you saying "maybe 2" state qualifiers.  Did you not type that?  When you the use the number 2 in one statement and say the word couple in another, it is safe to assume you mean two.

[pin2win1]

man you guys make it sound like Riley and Clay are to be feared across the state.... i'd hate to run into that buzz saw.. at some superdual.... they'd destroy all.....

[duck_and_run]

How bout when you say multiple sport atheletes and then change it to three sport atheletes after you were proven wrong Karl.  Was it two sports or 3 becuase it seemed to be two untill I proved your bs wrong.

[KarlHungus]

ok yeah, cause that was a definitive statement.... look at the context and you could see it was a stright up guess without looking deeply into it.

 

So I am supposed to respect your opinion on south bend wrestling when you are just guessing? 

 

Washington and Adams might seem bad when your only frame of reference is the Mishawaka or Penn programs but looking state wide, they are solid programs.

[KarlHungus]

man you guys make it sound like Riley and Clay are to be feared across the state.... i'd hate to run into that buzz saw.. at some superdual.... they'd destroy all.....

 

There you go putting words in my mouth.  But more to your point, Riley and Clay would both beat about 80-90% of the teams in the state.

[pin2win1]

U know the problem with the internet is that you cant hear tone of voice.... it does not translate over the keyboard and screen... When I made that statement it was more of a "maybe like 2 at most" would that sound better? I try not to use the work "like" that often cause i don't want to sound as if i am like totally a valley girl. Also when I am a trained public speaker its one of the words along with umm and really should not use that often.... but my tone in that statement probably would have been better to have been

 

"Maybe like two at the most."

[KarlHungus]

U know the problem with the internet is that you cant hear tone of voice.... it does not translate over the keyboard and screen... When I made that statement it was more of a "maybe like 2 at most" would that sound better? I try not to use the work "like" that often cause i don't want to sound as if i am like totally a valley girl. Also when I am a trained public speaker its one of the words along with umm and really should not use that often.... but my tone in that statement probably would have been better to have been

 

"Maybe like two at the most."

 

That means they are likely to not have two.  Less is more likely.  Tone or not, the facts just don't back you up.

[duck_and_run]

You said small schools can't compete because of the ammount of multiple sport atheletes.  After I made that list a proved your sorry butt wrong you changed it to three sport athelets.  All you and Y2 do is backtrack over your own arguements.  Your two cowards and I would meet or debate either one of you.  People would see your all talk.

[pin2win1]

There you go putting words in my mouth.  But more to your point, Riley and Clay would both beat about 80-90% of the teams in the state.

 

If they can beat 90 percent fo the state i would call that a buzz saw, so thats not putting words into your mouth.... I would say year in and year out maybe 80 percent, but 80 percent i think would be a stretch. Lots of teams in da region and indy areas that would destroy these teams, also alot of team down south too. But even if we go with 80 percent, I would say that is hardly excellent, excellent is Mishawaka, CP, Cathedral, PM..... Good might more accurately describes a team like Riley or a team like Clay.

 

So I am supposed to respect your opinion on south bend wrestling when you are just guessing?  

 

Washington and Adams might seem bad when your only frame of reference is the Mishawaka or Penn programs but looking state wide, they are solid programs.

 

I don't remember everything that everyone has done... all i know is that year in and year out SB schools are not known for their wrestling. And if Washington and Adams are good state wide, why is it that they don't have multiple state qualifiers year after year? I mean 4 teams make it out of sectionals, so Penn and Mishawaka only can take up 2 of those spots... and even up until this year, Penn had not been nearly a "great" team over the last 5 years or so, so they only had to get their wrestlers past one great schools.

[pin2win1]

That means they are likely to not have two.  Less is more likely.  Tone or not, the facts just don't back you up.

 

how do you know exactly what i meant? Are you me? maybe i didn;t clarify it well enough... that is possible especially on the internet.. but you don;'t know "what i meant".

 

that is unless you want to tell me "what i meant" to my face but i bet you won't

[pin2win1]

Anyway.. back on topic...

 

The way you make it sound, shouldn't Adams and Washington and Clay and Riley have like some of the best individuals in the state. I mean you guys say that the practice room during Nov-Feb is what makes wrestlers good enough to win state. Well they have 2 or 3 state calibar wrestlers year in and year out, shouldn't these 2 or 3 guys be making the rest of the individual guys better so that they dominate all the small school guys?

[KarlHungus]

If they can beat 90 percent fo the state i would call that a buzz saw, so thats not putting words into your mouth.... I would say year in and year out maybe 80 percent, but 80 percent i think would be a stretch. Lots of teams in da region and indy areas that would destroy these teams, also alot of team down south too. But even if we go with 80 percent, I would say that is hardly excellent, excellent is Mishawaka, CP, Cathedral, PM..... Good might more accurately describes a team like Riley or a team like Clay.

 

90% would mean there are 30 teams better then them in the state.  Clay was ranked top 20 this year at one point and Riley was top twenty last year.  That puts them in the top 10 percent.  But I am glad you admit they are at least good especially after you suggested that the SB schools are larger schools that struggle.  In the computer rankings Clay was 31st and Riley 49th.  Hardly struggling.

 

I don't remember everything that everyone has done... all i know is that year in and year out SB schools are not known for their wrestling. And if Washington and Adams are good state wide, why is it that they don't have multiple state qualifiers year after year? I mean 4 teams make it out of sectionals, so Penn and Mishawaka only can take up 2 of those spots... and even up until this year, Penn had not been nearly a "great" team over the last 5 years or so, so they only had to get their wrestlers past one great schools.

 

By good state wide I mean if you compare them with all 309 schools that wrestle.  Adams was 91st in the computer rankings and Washington was 111.  I still would not call this struggling. 

[pin2win1]

along those same lines, shouldn't the same be happening with Union county? How about Anderson Highland? Will the studs from Anderson Highland make the individuals from Anderson leaps and bounds better next year? How about john Glenn? They used to have a couple good individuals? Shouldn;t those individuals have make all their other individuals better and get them to state? misahwaka marian had this one stude when I was in hs at 189, he was the only one to make it out of sectionals.... shouldn;t he have improved some individuals on his team and been able to get them out of the sectionals that year? How about Garrett, they have some good state wrestlers year in and year out, why haven't they improved the other individuals on their team? Why didn't martsoff make it out of regionals this year for mishawaka? All those studs in the room couldn't make him better apparently.

 

Fact is, individuals don;t get good because they have other good individuals on their team, individuals get good because they put everything they have into it and have the potential to be good.

[KarlHungus]

how do you know exactly what i meant? Are you me? maybe i didn;t clarify it well enough... that is possible especially on the internet.. but you don;'t know "what i meant".

 

that is unless you want to tell me "what i meant" to my face but i bet you won't

 

Oh brother....here we go again.  What am I supposed to think you mean when you type the number 2?

 

Or when you say "a couple at most?"  You already admitted you were just guessing.  You are sure wound tight.

[pin2win1]

90% would mean there are 30 teams better then them in the state.  Clay was ranked top 20 this year at one point and Riley was top twenty last year.  That puts them in the top 10 percent.  But I am glad you admit they are at least good especially after you suggested that the SB schools are larger schools that struggle.  In the computer rankings Clay was 31st and Riley 49th.  Hardly struggling.

 

Clay was ranked because they beat a yorktown team that sat out some of their good wrestlers... this skewed the results. Besides, rankings don't mean jack. Its not like the coaches/sports writers/decbell don't see every single team out there, its a guess at best for them, and more often than not the larger schools get choosen because people know who the larger schools are be it through wrestling or something else.

 

Also are we going by computers? The same type of rankings that screw us over every year come the College football post season?

[pin2win1]

So enough about SB schools.... back to the topics.... why don;t teams with 1 or two studs make all their individuals better, if what makes great wrestlers great the time they spend in the room from Nov-Feb and not the rest of the year?

[Y2CJ41]

How about john Glenn? They used to have a couple good individuals? Shouldn;t those individuals have make all their other individuals better and get them to state?

They had some good heavyweights the past few years that were practice partners.

 

How about Garrett, they have some good state wrestlers year in and year out, why haven't they improved the other individuals on their team?

You have mentioned you know nothing about the Garrett program or even that we have had state qualifiers before this year, so therefore anything I say here will be called bs.  It is not worth saying either way.

 

Why didn't martsoff make it out of regionals this year for mishawaka? All those studs in the room couldn't make him better apparently.

He pinned himself

[Y2CJ41]

So enough about SB schools.... back to the topics.... why don;t teams with 1 or two studs make all their individuals better, if what makes great wrestlers great the time they spend in the room from Nov-Feb and not the rest of the year?

I am curious where that was stated.  Please document this statement.

[KarlHungus]

along those same lines, shouldn't the same be happening with Union county? How about Anderson Highland? Will the studs from Anderson Highland make the individuals from Anderson leaps and bounds better next year? How about john Glenn? They used to have a couple good individuals? Shouldn;t those individuals have make all their other individuals better and get them to state? misahwaka marian had this one stude when I was in hs at 189, he was the only one to make it out of sectionals.... shouldn;t he have improved some individuals on his team and been able to get them out of the sectionals that year? How about Garrett, they have some good state wrestlers year in and year out, why haven't they improved the other individuals on their team? Why didn't martsoff make it out of regionals this year for mishawaka? All those studs in the room couldn't make him better apparently.

 

Fact is, individuals don;t get good because they have other good individuals on their team, individuals get good because they put everything they have into it and have the potential to be good.

 

 

Anderson Highland has zero returning semi-state qualifiers so I doubt they will have many "studs" to help out the Anderson program.

 

Are you trying to say that kids don't get better by wrestling studs in the room every day?  I would hate to put words in your mouth and be challenged to a face to face non-violent meeting again.

 

Ask any coach or any wrestler in America and they will tell you that practice partners make a world of difference.  It is silly to think otherwise.  Really your venturing into DNR land here.

[pin2win1]

along what lines?

 

See my post right before this one.

 

Are you trying to say that kids don't get better by wrestling studs in the room every day?  I would hate to put words in your mouth and be challenged to a face to face non-violent meeting again.

 

Just showing i am not a keyboard warrior only karl. Showing atleast i have the guts to say what i say to your face and not hide behind a screen.

 

Ask any coach or any wrestler in America and they will tell you that practice partners make a world of difference.  It is silly to think otherwise.  Really your venturing into DNR land here.

 

Now I don't hve to go back, and look thanks, because you just said it right here.... its the practice partners in the room that makes all the individual wrestlers great. Without them you are at a huge disadvantage. Now, I agree practice partners do make wrestlers great, but the thing is, you are not limited to just your own practice partners for 8 months of the year, take advantage of it.