andy hobbs Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 All Wrestling people are good people. Very important dialog on Youth Wrestling and funding THE FOLLOWING ARE INTERVIEWS from flowrestling.org Rich Bender CEO of USA Wrestling http://www.flowrestling.org/search?cx=016405253375880695266%3Aeiqghjfwzyk&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=UTF-8&q=rich+bender&sa=Search#1867 Dave Dean Executive Director of MYWAY and NUWAY http://www.flowrestling.org/videos/speaker/1909-dave-dean/171659-dave-dean-votes-no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brey Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Dave Dean has some great ideas and the results to prove it. We moved from Indiana to Michigan a few years ago. We have basically watched MYWAY from the start. This past year Michigan had over 3500 participants in Folkstyle alone. It appears that Indiana had 3458 folkstyle, freestyle and greco. The thing that sticks out most about Michigan versus Indiana is that MYWAY proceeds goes directly back to wrestling not to peoples pockets. All wrestlers that qualify for the State meet receive a free T-shirt. the top three individuals in each weight class earns a free singlet and free admission to a national level tournament. I know these are just perks for competition but as expensive as this sport is anything helps. MYWAY keeps admission to tournaments as low as possible as opposed to our last experience at ISWA folkstyle state at sports of all sorts, i was hooked $200 before I walked in the door. I am not saying anything about the level of competition of Indiana versus Michigan becuase I believe Indiana has better individuals by far. The problem I have is that there are no in between of the good ones versus the no so good ones. On any given day in Michigan a guy that should probably win could get beat by the middle tier wrestler and this simply does not happen in Indiana. They have about two to three kids in each weight class that are going to beat everyone else. Just my opinion. Good luck HYWAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grecoref Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Brey, Please give documented examples of how money goes into "people's pockets" with USAW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anglico2007 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 I went to a hyway tournament. My kid got an extremely small medal in a piece of plastic with no lanyard or string. My kid threw it away when we got home. That was the state medal we received. we decided not to do anymore in Indiana. We dont go for the medals or trophies . We go for the competition, but for 18.00 you could at least give the kid something to make them able to wear their medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal34 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 My son got first, they gave him a third place medal saying they ran out of first place medals, he also threw his away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Have not watched the video, but to be fair to the already posted responses: ISWA has passed out more than its fair share of "crappy" state medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infolady Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 AJ....Could you explain your response regarding crappy medals? I know there was one year the ISWA gave trophies and the wrestlers hated them so the ISWA designed new medals, beginning with Folkstyle. During the last 3 years all medals have all been updated. Also, presentation charts given to champions are far better since using trackwrestling and beginning this year, the ISWA provided all 1st place finishers a champion t-shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 ISWA has passed out more than its fair share of "crappy" state medals. AJ....Could you explain? Since I have been in charge of ordering medals for the past several years, I am confused by your staement. I know there was one year the ISWA gave trophies and the wrestlers hated them so the ISWA designed new medals, beginning with Folkstyle. During the last 3 years all medals have all been updated. Also, presentation charts given to champions are far better since using trackwrestling and beginning this year, the ISWA provided all 1st place finishers a champion t-shirt. I usually only post information and refrain from any comments, but since I am in charge of medals, I am somewhat puzzled by your negative response. I agree with AJ. With the amount we are paying for a state tournement. The least that could happen would be a descent medal for placing in the top eight. The medals that are currently passed out are the same calibre as the medals that the kids get at local tournaments. At least signify on the medal that it is a state tournament and the place finished. I am not trying to beat you up but this should not be anything you have not heard before. I here it year in and year out from wrestlers and parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Wrestling Fanpage Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Don't change a thing my son has 13 of the first place medals he was mad the year they switched to trophies he has 2 of those as well and likes the medals alot better. It is really not about the medal it is about the quality of wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal34 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 To a youth wrestler i think bragging rights then the medal is more important, you always want the good draw, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 My sons have wrestled in other state tournaments before moving to Indiana and maybe you should look at what other states are doing for a fresh perspective and ideas. First, have a podium and present the wrestlers their awards so parents have a photo op (would be nice to be able to send to local papers for additional coverage for the sport) instead of being handed a medal by whoever is at the table. The wrestlers work very hard and deserve to be recognized for their efforts and accomplishments. Second, at least a t-shirt instead of a coupon to buy one was an improvement but why not a state champion jacket as they do in Iowa the kids really are proud to wear that and again it promotes the sport. You get more than enough money to make these things happen with the $10 per card the state keeps, proceeds from all local tournaments, state tournament fees (that are so much higher than other states) it seems there is plenty and if not how about releasing access to the budget/finacials so parents can see what money comes in and where it goes out. For example, Indiana is bigger than Iowa and they have both AAU and USA state tournaments and no one buys cards for local tournaments since they are not affiliated with an organization and the school hosting the tournament keeps all of the tournament profit for their program. One more item, why are the officials required to volunteer? In other states they are paid for their work and in turn you get more officials, and when you treat officials as professionals you get professional behavior in response. Other states have 3 or 4 times the number of local tournments as are available here and they have no shortage of officials because more parents/coaches officiate as an extra income source. I don't know anything about HYWAY specifically but I do know what positive effects competition has on state organizations. The quality of wrestling is already there, the local clubs, coaches and wrestlers take there of that but the focus should be on improving the awareness of the sport. What about recording the finals at state and posting them on flowrestling for added exposure for Indiana wrestling? That wouldn't cost anything and we have some outstanding finals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cewrestlingfan Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I agree that the medals from both the ISWA State Tournaments and from the HYWAY State Tournament could be nicer. I think a more important area is officiating. The officiating at the HYWAY State Tournament (a much smaller tournament) was much better than the officiating at the ISWA State Tournaments. If I am not mistaken, the officials at the HYWAY tournament were paid for their services. I was very disappointed with the officiating at Freestyle State last Sunday as I saw SEVERAL matches that were poorly officiated. I had a discussion on my way home with my wife saying that I would be happy to pay an extra $5.00 to pay the officials to ensure that we attract quality officials to participate in the ISWA tournaments. Don't get me wrong, there were many high quality officials at the tournament, however there were too many that I feel were not ready to officiate a state level tournament. Maybe if we pay the officials at the state level tournaments, then we can attract enough quality officials that we will not need to use officials that are not experienced enough to officiate these events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 "Crappy" may have been the wrong word, but I thought it was funny to point out the awards at Hywa State, which I did not attend, and not discuss the ISWA medals. The square medals they had one year were not nice medals. I understand that the awards have to be bought in a large quantity so selections are limited. I was not trying to dig at the ISWA, just trying to point out that awards are always the best judgment of a tournament or an institution. I have been to tournaments that had GREAT awards, but it was ran poorly and was not a good tournament. The wall charts I will say are a very nice touch, especially for the younger kids. I think that is a great award and hope they continue giving those as part of the awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infolady Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Some answers..... ISWA charges clubs hosting a sanctioned event a one time fee of $250.00. This includes the cost of the sanction and a detailed ad in the ISWA publication and on the web site. Each event keeps all proceeds from their event. The ISWA receives no other income from local events. This differs a great deal from most other states. I know that many of the states charge a $50 sanction fee plus $1 per wrestler at each and every local event. Each year, all ISWA member clubs are provided an annual report that includes a financial statement, proposed budget and an overview of all programs. The ISWA also undergoes an audit by our accounting firm. Of the $10 per card sold, approximately $32,000 is used to cover the cost of printing and distribution of the Indiana Amateur Wrestling News mailed to all wrestlers, clubs, officials, coaches, Indiana high schools, etc. ISWA Folkstyle State Finals are staffed by IHSAA Certified officials that are paid. ISWA Freestyle and Greco State Final officials are volunteers. There has been discussion regarding paying these officials as well but last year at Freestyle state we had someone complain about a bad official and it just happened to be the same Indiana Official that represented the USA at the Olympics. As far as the number of wrestler in Indiana vs. Michigan...I believe that Michigan's population is approximately 11 million while the population of Indiana is 6 million. As to the remark regarding Sports of All Sorts, I think that was 4 or 5 years ago. That has not happened since. My final comments: I apologize for ever posting an opinion. I should know better. If I am ever tempted to post anything other than information on this site......someone please shoot me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal34 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 They charge enough that they could pay for officials, When you have children officals or even first year officals on the mat at least have someone over see what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal34 Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 So you charge them a fee to have a tournment then you charge them a membership fee, So you spend $10 of that card for media what about the $20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlechamp Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 This is alot to take in, but I will comment on a few of the topics: I am not at all familiar with other states and how they do their medals--but I think it is generous of the ISWA to give out medals to the top 8 finishers. This may be the difference with Indiana and others, most tournaments only medal out the top 3---again, not sure about other states..... I see nothing wrong with the quality of the medals, they DO state that they are an ISWA state event,--at least the ones my son has do. They seem to be very good quality also. I see nothing wrong with them. I do agree with some of the officiating at Freestyle state. I also understand that these are volunteers, as is the table help. With that being said, I too, would pay an extra $1.00, if that's what it would take to get qualified officials. Children ifficiating at a state level tournament are not a great idea...it breeds angry parents, nervous kids, and kids that may have one day been good refs being ran off for being yelled at. There were some very questionable matches/calls at Freestyle state, but I also think that Freestyle opens up alot of room for interpretation and judgement on the refs part. It's not near as cut and dry and Folkstyle wrestling----in my opinion. As much as people have to say about how great ISWA is, or how poor they believe things are ran------I'd say that if we want to make things better, we all need to GET INVOLVED. I saw and heard numerous complaints last weekend about different things, but the majority of those complaints were coming from people who were not willing to volunteer to help. We are all here for the same reason---to support our kids and the wrestling program in Indiana. This takes us all, not simply the Board at the ISWA, as clubs, we are a part of this program. If we want change, we need to go about it in a constructive manner, go to meetings, voice our opinions in the correct forum, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infolady Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 There is no such thing as an ISWA Coach's card. The ISWA only requires a Copper Coaches Certification card to be at matside to coach. It is a one time clinic at a cost of $30.00. A USA Wrestling Coaches Membership card is not required at ISWA state events. However, both cards are required to coach at any USA Wrestling regional or national event. Also, Illinois requires a USA Coach's card to be at matside to coach in Illinois. All clubs pay a membership fee of $100 that includes 5 million dollars liability insurance. Only clubs hosting tournaments pay the tournament sanction fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdanteague Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 ISWA Folkstyle State Finals are staffed by IHSAA Certified officials that are paid. ISWA Freestyle and Greco State Final officials are volunteers. There has been discussion regarding paying these officials as well but last year at Freestyle state we had someone complain about a bad official and it just happened to be the same Indiana Official that represented the USA at the Olympics. Infolady, Thank you for the responses to concerns voiced in this topic. If folks don't like some of the answers, so be it, at least you are willing to communicate. However, regarding officiating, I do think there are legitimate concerns from what I saw last weekend at Freestyle state. Just because one of the complaints was directed at an eminantly qualified official is not a very good reason to not address the situation. In fact, I would guess that official is more qualified to handle complaints than anyone else. I also find no fault with those that do volunteer their time to officiate. The responsibility falls on the ISWA leadership. I am hoping that they also see the need for a more professional approach to the officiating situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy hobbs Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 I went to a hyway tournament. My kid got an extremely small medal in a piece of plastic with no lanyard or string. My kid threw it away when we got home. That was the state medal we received. we decided not to do anymore in Indiana. We dont go for the medals or trophies . We go for the competition, but for 18.00 you could at least give the kid something to make them able to wear their medal. YES, MEDALS NEED TO GREATLY IMPROVE. AGREED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachi123 Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Lets see a list of every clubs own Blue Shirt Officials. When ever I get the same coaches barking and complaining, I always ask who represents their club as a Blue Shirt. You will find that very few clubs have someone that officiates. If every club had at least one, there would be 3 adult or certified refs at each mat at state. I know personally that some of the biggest clubs in the state can not say that they have a blue shirt official. Jerry Ingalls(Beast Wrestling Club/New Castle Wrestling Club) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal34 Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Why should any club be responsible to bring officals, ISWA should contact and pay for them and please dont go to the local elementry to find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdanteague Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Why should any club be responsible to bring officals, ISWA should contact and pay for them and please dont go to the local elementry to find them. What training opportunities to freestyle officials get from either USA wrestling or ISWA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Madness Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 I believe the HYWAY will be good competition for the ISWA. The best thing about the HYWAY is once it get going strong it is built to build and promote all levels of wrestling. Right now the ISWA does this for our high schoolers(which I 100% agree with) but not our youth. This is where I believe in the HYWAY has a huge advantage. The HYWAY is just begging....it took MYWAY a while to get on its feet to. It will get better and bigger. The best thing....we will all benefit from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italianmom Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Why should any club be responsible to bring officals, ISWA should contact and pay for them and please dont go to the local elementry to find them. Where should the ISWA find officials if not in the clubs? Are there officials out there that no one knows about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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