NickS Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Figured some of you guys would find these numbers interesting, D1 wrestlers by home state. I went to each team's official website to figure these numbers out. The number on the far left represents the number of D1 programs that particular state has. For example: Pennsylvania has 14 programs, New Jersey 3 programs, Ohio 4 programs, and so on. [table] 14 3 4 5 7 3 4 6 8 3 - 2 2 1 2 - - 1 2 2 1 1 1 - - 1 1 1 - 2 1 1 1 - 1 1 1 - - - 1 - - 1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - Overall Pennsylvania New Jersey Ohio California New York Illinois Michigan Virginia North Carolina Iowa Florida Maryland INDIANA Minnesota Colorado Washington Georgia Missouri Oregon Oklahoma Utah Wisconsin Arizona Kansas Texas Tennessee Delaware Idaho Alaska Massachusets South Dakota West Virginia Connecticut Montana Nebraska North Dakota Wyoming New Hampshire Louisiana Nevada South Carolina Hawaii Maine Rhode Island New Mexico Alabama Kentucky Germany Japan Mexico Mississippi Mongolia Morocco South Africa Texas Uzbekistan Vermont 343 205 190 189 158 127 100 98 82 80 59 59 50 49 46 44 43 43 34 33 33 32 27 27 27 25 22 21 18 18 17 17 15 14 12 12 11 10 9 9 8 5 5 5 4 3 3 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 In-State Pennsylvania California Ohio Michigan New York North Carolina Virginia Illinois Iowa New Jersey INDIANA Maryland Oklahoma Oregon Colorado Tennessee Minnesota Missouri Utah South Dakota Arizona Wisconsin Nebraska North Dakota Delaware West Virginia Wyoming Idaho Connecticut Massachusets South Carolina Rhode Island 209 124 106 69 63 61 60 58 57 41 31 25 23 23 19 17 16 15 15 13 11 11 9 9 8 8 8 7 4 4 4 1 Out-of-State New Jersey Pennsylvania New York Ohio Illinois California Florida Washington Georgia Virginia Maryland Minnesota Michigan Missouri Texas Colorado Kansas Iowa North Carolina Wisconsin INDIANA Alaska Utah Arizona Delaware Idaho Massachusets Montana Connecticut Oregon New Hampshire Oklahoma Louisiana Nevada West Virginia Tennessee Hawaii Maine New Mexico Rhode Island South Carolina South Dakota Alabama Kentucky Nebraska North Dakota Wyoming Germany Japan Mexico Mississippi Mongolia Morocco South Africa Uzbekistan Vermont 164 134 95 84 69 65 59 44 43 38 34 33 31 28 28 27 27 23 21 21 19 18 18 16 14 14 14 14 11 11 10 10 9 9 9 8 5 5 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 [/table] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 This is a very interesting poll and we thank you for bringing in the numbers. Here it doesn't look like class wrestling is doing the system justice at the college level, it looks like state programs are. I mean besides new jersey every state has more then our total number of our college wrestlers being recruited in state. Again the big ten is more dominate then any other college division with Indiana having solid programs. I read some articles from Iowa a while back that a lot of high ranking wrestling members of the state were not to fond of picking up tshirts. People like to stay within their own sate and thats what helps them get the cream of their own crop. If we had 8 college programs I am sure we would smoke North Carolina on college wrestlers. If anyone can show that there is a link between class wrestling and college success I would like to see it. I believe this shows no linkage to that. Also the three top placers this year from Indiana went out of state. If we had that type of roster on Indiana or Purdue we would be a top 5 team for sure. Two runners up Tshirts scoring more points Escobedo all American. Hernandez and Kinser scoring points. Not saying we would have one the thing but state by state we are definatly top five with our current college atheletes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfan2001 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Based on the numbers presented it could be argued that single class wrestling is not hurting the state of California. They have 189 wrestlers in Div. 1 schools with 65 being on teams out of the state of California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I think this shows that there is something to be said for a one class system. The state tournement allows a great wrestler too have 15 matches usually over half against quality wrestlers. Being able to win close matches in tight situations has obviously helped our wrestlers at the college level. I am proud to say our system has one champion. The best wrestle the best and both wrestlers are better for that. Win loose or draw the tournement allows a wrestler to get tested several times which helps them progress in tight match situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Based on the numbers presented it could be argued that single class wrestling is not hurting the state of California. They have 189 wrestlers in Div. 1 schools with 65 being on teams out of the state of California. What does it say for Indiana? I see four states above Indiana that we are generally a better wrestling state 9 out of 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Besides Florida and Maryland every other state has more D1 programs. People tend to recruit within states besides states like new york that have 7 D1 colleges. So if you want more Indiana success have more D1 colleges not classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Besides Florida and Maryland every other state has more D1 programs. People tend to recruit within states besides states like new york that have 7 D1 colleges. So if you want more Indiana success have more D1 colleges not classes. So why does Ohio have twice as many DI schools, yet almost 4X more kids on DI rosters? Minnesota has only one DI program, yet as many kids on DI rosters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 There population is 3 times what we are. According to the numbers that I have seen a solid wrestling state should have about 1 D1 wrestler for every 100,000 people. Thats true for most states besides Iowa there well over there mark. Then again i think Iowa wrestling has been part of there communities for decades so that makes sense. Pennsylvania has 14 schools so enough said on there success. North Carolina has 8 so there success is rough on the edges. Basically indiana is probably a lil above where we should be as a state. We have had 2 top 25 teams for many years and its about where we should be. Lastly show me proof that class wrestling has in any way rose the college D1 level wrestlers within a state. Thats you arguement lets see the proof. Its not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 But if school size doesn't matter why does population size matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Because population is in the millions of people and school size still means 14 wrestlers. Also there are more schools to choose from in other states. California has 20,000 wrestlers we are about a fifth of that on a good day. 308 schools is not that many and not enough to class. where california i would venture to say has almost 5 times the school numbers. They should have 5 times the wrestlers and they do not. Basically were right where we should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Ohio Before class wrestling 9 NCAA champions in 43 years or .09 per year After class wrestling 22 NCAA champions in 28 years .78 per year Class wrestling started in 1971 Illinois Before Class wrestling 24 NCAA champions in 46 years or .52 per year After class wrestling 19 NCAA champions in 35 years or .54 per year Class wrestling started in 1974 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Because population is in the millions of people and school size still means 14 wrestlers. Also there are more schools to choose from in other states. California has 20,000 wrestlers we are about a fifth of that on a good day. 308 schools is not that many and not enough to class. where california i would venture to say has almost 5 times the school numbers. They should have 5 times the wrestlers and they do not. Basically were right where we should be. No, no, no, if school size doesn't matter, then state size shouldn't matter. If the communities in Indiana would support wrestling then we would be as good as California or New York. Iowa has roughly the same amount of schools, but they have three classes. Washington, Nebraska, North Carolina, etc have less teams and more classes. Know your FACTS http://www.garrettwrestling.com/statebreakdown.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 First of all the time frames are so long ago that it doesn't apply because there are thousands of factors that go into making a state a quality wrestling state. Secondly a .02 change is not signifigant enough to show a change because of class wrestling. Ohio was so below where they should be according to the numbers that they were bound to make a signifigant change. Give an example in the 1990's that has happend and benifited the state. If Illinois doen't have a national champ in the next two years then they are actually below where they have started it shows no growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 State size should matter the sport of wrestling has equalizsers like wieght classes and only 14 wrestlers. So basically all schools are on the same playing field. The more schools the more competition the more top calliber kids. Iowa has been born and raised to wrestle thats why they are so dominate on the numbers its about there communities. I do agree we could be as good as other states if we had the community commitment. Iowa has 4 wrestlers per 100000 at the D1 level that shows theydo somethign rigt they have community envolvement arround the state there sport is wrestling not basketball players. Its the same as soccer accross the world. The USA are all small guys who couldn't play football where Europe is all big guys who didn't want to play football. Wrestling is like basketball in iowa's communities. Yeah and Neraska has 12 D1 wrestler so its really helped there state. Washington has less then us also and north carolina has 8 D1 teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcarter Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I'm really not trying to jump into this argument but I think that you can't realistically use numbers from the 70's to support either of your arguments because numbers were bound to go up from then, because the US population was going up. So realistically most states should have more NCAA champs because there were more people involved. I hope that makes sense to everyone like it does in my head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Just FYI, I'll be looking up D2 and D3 #'s. Can't promise on how long it will take though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I'm really not trying to jump into this argument but I think that you can't realistically use numbers from the 70's to support either of your arguments because numbers were bound to go up from then, because the US population was going up. So realistically most states should have more NCAA champs because there were more people involved. I hope that makes sense to everyone like it does in my head The stats do show that class wrestling has NOT hurt those states. Ohio has made a significant jump which to me is very interesting since they are a close neighbor of ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 State size should matter the sport of wrestling has equalizsers like wieght classes and only 14 wrestlers. So basically all schools are on the same playing field. The more schools the more competition the more top calliber kids. Iowa has been born and raised to wrestle thats why they are so dominate on the numbers its about there communities. I do agree we could be as good as other states if we had the community commitment. Iowa has 4 wrestlers per 100000 at the D1 level that shows theydo somethign rigt they have community envolvement arround the state there sport is wrestling not basketball players. Its the same as soccer accross the world. The USA are all small guys who couldn't play football where Europe is all big guys who didn't want to play football. Wrestling is like basketball in iowa's communities. Yeah and Neraska has 12 D1 wrestler so its really helped there state. Washington has less then us also and north carolina has 8 D1 teams. If state size matters in this discussion then school size matters, its just on a smaller scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcarter Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 All I was saying that was from whenever to '74 there was less of a total population for everyone than there was from '74 to now. So as population grows programs will grow and as total population grows then state pop. grows and then the NCAA champs from a state will go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 All I was saying that was from whenever to '74 there was less of a total population for everyone than there was from '74 to now. So as population grows programs will grow and as total population grows then state pop. grows and then the NCAA champs from a state will go up. I agree completely, but there are no real numbers to compare how most states were pre-class wrestling and post-class wrestling. This is about as close as you are going to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire77 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 imo success will increase interest in and the number of athletes going out for a sport. look at the schools around you, the ones that have a very successful program , any sport or activity. i bet they have a great number of students going out for that sport ,but the other sports that do not do as well or are maybe even under .500 have a lot less participation. a Class system would make it easier for the smaller schools to have some success which will in turn bring on more participation. i hope we can agree that the more students that participate in school activities is a good thing for the student , school, and community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Ohio is 4 times our size they should make a huge jump. Illinois has done nothing worth bragging about. 14 wrestlers on the varsity team is all you can have on any highschool team that helps to even the sport. Also the wieght classes add another set of equality in the sport. To tell the truth I do agree with ohio classing there tournement more then I would ours, its a much much bigger state. You said you coached at northrop? I looked that up it isn't to small of a school. I don't see anything about there wrestling program being good in the news so why are they not as dominate as your school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I agree fire77. I know our football team wouldn't have the numbers they have if they had to play Northrop, Carroll, Dwenger and Concordia each and every year at the sectional level. The same goes for our basketball team who could barely sniff a sectional title in the 80's and 90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Ohio is 4 times our size they should make a huge jump. Illinois has done nothing worth bragging about. 14 wrestlers on the varsity team is all you can have on any highschool team that helps to even the sport. Also the wieght classes add another set of equality in the sport. To tell the truth I do agree with ohio classing there tournement more then I would ours, its a much much bigger state. You said you coached at northrop? I looked that up it isn't to small of a school. I don't see anything about there wrestling program being good in the news so why are they not as dominate as your school. Ohio has 529 schools in three classes, we have 309 in one class. We can afford to have two classes. Look at the numbers, our state tournament is the most exclusive in the country. http://www.garrettwrestling.com/statebreakdown.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcarter Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I can understand why you would want to class the team aspect of wrestling, but wouldn't that mean that school like yours Y2 that's a small school wouldn't wrestle a big school like say Perry? Wouldn't that kinda of say to the kids that "Hey your not good enough to wrestle with these kids to were only going to wrestle lesser schools." I'm not trying to add fuel to either persons fire, I'm just saying that when I wrestled I would rather be wrestling schools like Perry where the competition is tougher other than a school I could just beat up on. It's like my coach used to say no one thats a good wrestler likes to wrestle a pud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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