manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Like that of california I take it. This all being said we do not have a class tournement and our college atheletes are doing better then ever before maybe this is because were doing it right. Were not cutting the competition to make it easier. Were making our kids go through a grinder for a state title. There is nothing wrong with that in my opinion. If you on't like the current system them drop out of it like you told me about the website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I can understand why you would want to class the team aspect of wrestling, but wouldn't that mean that school like yours Y2 that's a small school wouldn't wrestle a big school like say Perry? Wouldn't that kinda of say to the kids that "Hey your not good enough to wrestle with these kids to were only going to wrestle lesser schools." I'm not trying to add fuel to either persons fire, I'm just saying that when I wrestled I would rather be wrestling schools like Perry where the competition is tougher other than a school I could just beat up on. It's like my coach used to say no one thats a good wrestler likes to wrestle a pud. Isn't that what class football and basketball and baseball does though? In all honesty the kids will go out there against whoever you put them against. As a competitor I want to go up against the best and beat the best, but as someone that looks at the future of this sport and wants it to be healthy when I have kids in the sport, class wrestling is the way to go. This is from Brad Traviolia and sums it up almost perfectly. I must admit that I carry a rather silly sense of additional pride knowing that I won a single-class state championship. A little bit of bragging rights when trash-talking with teammates from other states. However after having seen the benefits that a class system provides, both in promotional value for the sport and a better student-athlete experience, I can?t really argue against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Fact or fiction if we class the sport the al smith classic will be the second biggest tournement to win of the season right behind the big class state. Its a joke I would rather be top 5 at an Al Smith then when a 1 a title. Fotoball is different because playing 22 guys is a lot better then 11 on both sides of the football. There is a competitive advantage where as wrestling 14 guys is a steady thing. No one has an advantage. Less then 10 schools have over 30 wrestlers I would imagine so the rooms are not that big of a difference either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire77 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 i think 2 classes would be enough. besides the ihsaa could hold another meet with the winners competing and it would collect some more money. if 64 kids were at the state that many more people would go to it, parents, friends, and classmates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 1 class is enough and the people are voting and they likethe current system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Fact or fiction if we class the sport the al smith classic will be the second biggest tournement to win of the season right behind the big class state. Its a joke I would rather be top 5 at an Al Smith then when a 1 a title. Fotoball is different because playing 22 guys is a lot better then 11 on both sides of the football. There is a competitive advantage where as wrestling 14 guys is a steady thing. No one has an advantage. Less then 10 schools have over 30 wrestlers I would imagine so the rooms are not that big of a difference either. There were no single A schools at the Al Smith and only a few 2A. Therefore I would much rather win a 1A title then not have the opportunity to compete at the Al Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I said compete at a high level would be better then winning a lower class at lower level state. I am assuming a 3 level field. Basically its a joke when the biggest team tournement of the year isn't even the state title. Face it, it downgrades compitition. Why do this in a sport that has so many equalisers. Again the numbers are not stagoring in the rooms for a lot of state championship teams before the past three or four years 30 wrestlers in a room was a great year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcarter Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I have a question for Y2 and Karl. Are you guys for classing both the individual and team parts or just the team part of wrestling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I am for both. Classing team state would be a step in the right direction and it would make me a little happy, but classing both is what I feel is best for the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Your a sick sick man if your think classing individual is a positive thing. The individual portion of the state has nothing to do with team size at all. Two men wrestle one wins no one to blame but themselves. Otherwise just go start a club sport at garret and leave the state how it is. Your only for your own personal gratification if your for telling the kids they can't compete with bigger school wrestlers. Small schools have always done there fair share at the state tournement and there is no reason for that to be touched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Uh huh, just call me Mr. Egomaniac! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I will how is a weaker state tournement good for the kids? Everyone would agree that classing the state would make each half weaker I will presume? Basically if you want less individual competition I could see you agree but if you would like your atheletes to push them selves and become better then the individual portion is great how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Again the numbers are not stagoring in the rooms for a lot of state championship teams before the past three or four years 30 wrestlers in a room was a great year. Any data to support this claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Everyone would agree that classing the state would make each half weaker I will presume? I doubt Merriville and Crown Point will get weaker if they have to compete with each other for sectional titles. If Triton and Bremen are classed with schools their own size they might be able to build a program like they have in Football and Basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Bad wrestling schools will stay bad unless the community and coaching take it to the next level. If both those two are on the same page good things will happen. Even if your a small school with a bad program and you wake up tommarro and everything is classed it doesn't mean yourgoing to be a good team. Plus there are so many bad 5a schools that classing this system will also hurt their numbers. Good schools are good because they have had a system in place for 10 plus years. Its not because they get great atheletes to start wrestling its because there wrestlers have been in the sport for 10 or 15 years by the time they graduate. Technique can over come talent more then talent can overcome technique. Coach the youth from elementry on up and have the coaches in place to have good numbers and success will follow. Look at the good wrestling communities, they all have good youth programs its not because there bigger its because the students want to be wrestlers. Lets start classing the youth to its unfair for little jimmy who wrestles for a small school to compete with crown points larry. Its rediculous there taught better from young ages and thats why there great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Bad wrestling schools will stay bad unless the community and coaching take it to the next level. If both those two are on the same page good things will happen. Even if your a small school with a bad program and you wake up tommarro and everything is classed it doesn't mean yourgoing to be a good team. Plus there are so many bad 5a schools that classing this system will also hurt their numbers. Good schools are good because they have had a system in place for 10 plus years. Its not because they get great atheletes to start wrestling its because there wrestlers have been in the sport for 10 or 15 years by the time they graduate. Technique can over come talent more then talent can overcome technique. Coach the youth from elementry on up and have the coaches in place to have good numbers and success will follow. Look at the good wrestling communities, they all have good youth programs its not because there bigger its because the students want to be wrestlers. Lets start classing the youth to its unfair for little jimmy who wrestles for a small school to compete with crown points larry. Its rediculous there taught better from young ages and thats why there great. A school with very little post season success will be given the opportunity to build their programs much like Triton's basketball program has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Schools with very little success can build there programs now they just don't do it. This is not because of class wrestling not being a part of the equation. Its because the parents and community don't put forth the time and effort. Its not like coaches are going to run out and say alright we have a shot now its classed. Coaches either have it or they don't and the arguement that bad programs would put forth more effort because of the class system is bullocks. Basically if you say you want to make yourself look better as a coach i would see that but anything else is just a cop out for the true reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Schools with very little success can build there programs now they just don't do it. This is not because of class wrestling not being a part of the equation. Its because the parents and community don't put forth the time and effort. Its not like coaches are going to run out and say alright we have a shot now its classed. Coaches either have it or they don't and the arguement that bad programs would put forth more effort because of the class system is bullocks. Basically if you say you want to make yourself look better as a coach i would see that but anything else is just a cop out for the true reason. Triton's coach has had a program in place for almost 40 years and he has said that recruiting and maintaining numbers would be far easier if they had a snowball's chance in competing for post-season titles like the football, basketball and baseball teams. Increased participation at schools like Triton would be good for the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I am very aware of that and respectfully disagree with it and I am not going to say what a personally feel about tritons program. It would be good but it won't work, name where it has worked and we can talk. Y2J's examples were very weak with ohio and illinois. Do not change it unless you no the results will be benificial on a whole. Some schools would have more problems with there big school sectionals and would hurt big school numbers. That and bad programs will stay bad. Its simple really you only hurt the bottom of the big schools and you only help the top of the small schools. Not a fair trade off where I am sitting. The ends don't justify the means you cant take from someone to make another person happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Show me where class wrestling has hurt states and their wrestling participation numbers. I know for a fact Oregon has seen an increase in participation so much so that they added two more classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I am very aware of that and respectfully disagree with it and I am not going to say what a personally feel about tritons program. It would be good but it won't work, name where it has worked and we can talk. Y2J's examples were very weak with ohio and illinois. Do not change it unless you no the results will be benificial on a whole. Some schools would have more problems with there big school sectionals and would hurt big school numbers. That and bad programs will stay bad. Its simple really you only hurt the bottom of the big schools and you only help the top of the small schools. Not a fair trade off where I am sitting. The ends don't justify the means you cant take from someone to make another person happy. How were the examples weak. They showed me that those two states have, on average produced more national champs since the implementation of class wrestling. Maybe now the bottom of the big schools will get their butts in gear and try to build a program instead of finishing in the middle of the pack of a sectional filled with small schools and the small schools now will have a chance to compete like their buddies on the football, basketball and baseball teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Well indiana basketball has been hurt through the process. I have already stated they lost a ton of attendance during the change and are starting to pick back up but it will be decades before they are able to come close to retaining there attendance. I would say since Indiana is on the rise for superior college wrestlers we shouldn't change look at illinois if anything it has stalled out the progress of there state. They are considered a good wrestling state and there progress has slowed in top level atheletes. .02percent is not a growth I would be bragging about over a 30 year stretch. Or since were in an economic crunch the big schools will get rid of there programs. Lots of them don't fill there rosters either and it is less acceptable at big schools. Termination of those schools would hurt as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Well indiana basketball has been hurt through the process. I have already stated they lost a ton of attendance during the change and are starting to pick back up but it will be decades before they are able to come close to retaining there attendance. I would say since Indiana is on the rise for superior college wrestlers we shouldn't change look at illinois if anything it has stalled out the progress of there state. They are considered a good wrestling state and there progress has slowed in top level atheletes. .02percent is not a growth I would be bragging about over a 30 year stretch. Or since were in an economic crunch the big schools will get rid of there programs. Lots of them don't fill there rosters either and it is less acceptable at big schools. Termination of those schools would hurt as well. If attendance is the only variable as to the overall health of the sport I would agree with you. However, at small schools, the classed sports are thriving as they never have before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Please also explain why 40 state have classed wrestling. Are there that many egotistical small school coaches out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 There will alwyas be ego's most states have classed well in the past and a lot is about size were not a big state and not a small state so it doesn't benifit us there. Other states class because there democrat and believe things always are unfair. Wrestlign is not unfair and trying to make it unfair makes it less fair for others if you had a perfect system I would say yeah but there is none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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