dpetty Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 The dreaded debate on class wrestling on flo wrestling: http://www.flowrestling.org/topics/view/94-state-tournaments-how-many-classes-should-there-be I found this interesting from the point on why many states feel that their currrent class system is in place. The money is the big issue. It makes more money to have more people wrestling at state because they hold them in the same place at the same time. Never really thought about it that way. Never really talked to you Y2 but I figured it would give you some new ammo and I enjoy the banter from others like the elder. Something else I found interesting was the link to the class dual meet format from North Carolina. Not a great wrestling state but the idea of a class team championship would be something many would go for. It would probably add more fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I really find it hard to believe all the state associations are just out for money. To me that is a very weak argument. I read over the dialogue last night and wasn't too impressed with the reasons for a single class system. It is the same stuff we hear here all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpetty Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 I agree that is is a weak argument to not have class argument but the IHSAA might bite they are all about the money. If the percentages of coaches don't want it OK I will play but I think the depth is hurt by not having it. Not in the kids as much as the coaches. People have to believe they have a chance to win. Brad Smith from Iowa a National Champ coaching at a small school why? He had a chance to win. Of course he worked hard and it paid off he is a much bigger school now but he won a ton of titles at that little school. We need a place for those young guys in college from IN to coach and not everyone will get to coach in college or a big school. If they think they can win it I believe our depth in this state would improve because better coaching leads to better wrestling. Nice site and thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 If you look at football, why would a coach like Bill Sharpe stay at Jimtown for 100 million years? The same goes for Bud Wright at Sheridan. If they would have to play Penn and Ben Davis year in year out they wouldn't be coaching or would be at a different school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpetty Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Preaching to the choir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 If you look at football, why would a coach like Bill Sharpe stay at Jimtown for 100 million years? The same goes for Bud Wright at Sheridan. If they would have to play Penn and Ben Davis year in year out they wouldn't be coaching or would be at a different school. Now, now Y2! you can not go assuming the worst. Maybe Sharpe and Wright compete just fine with those schools. Maybe they love their small town feel and environment for their families. We can not give hypothetical negatives and then not give the hypothetical positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Their programs were built on success, if they made it out of sectional once every 20 years, then they wouldn't have the kids or the program that they have now. They would have moved on or been fired because of a lack of success if they had to play those teams each and every year just to get out of sectional. The very best Jimtown and Sheridan teams would have a hard time competing with the worst Ben Davis or Penn teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 AJ, What schools have you taught, attended or coached at in your career? What are their sizes? If you had to build a championship team, would you rather choose from 200 boys or 800 boys? If you had one great wrestler and wanted him to succeed to the fullest potential would you rather look for practice partners from 200 kids in the school or 800 kids in the school? These are simple questions that I would love to hear your answers to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I'd love to pick from 800 boys, that is twice the number of total students that I get to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I think Sheridan is about 10 minutes from Carmel....they should be in the same football sectional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Why is that Mr. Razo? I'm curious why you would think you would have a better shot at having a better team and individuals with more students to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpetty Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 That is funny since Sharpe started out at Southport and left. Since he is a friend of my wife's family that was not the story that came to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyourbase Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 So would you rather say I am the 2008 Class AA 135lb Indiana State Champion? or.... I am the 2008 135lb Indiana State Champion? IMO, it takes away from the accomplishment if you have to tag it with a "class". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Either way the kid states he's the state champion. Do you think David Taylor goes around saying he's the DII State Champion in Ohio? Or what about the Stieber brothers, do they say they are DIII champions? No, they simply state they are state champions. As someone with a blue ring from Jimtown or Sheridan what they got it for. They will say being state champions, they don't mention anything about being 1A or 2A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Why is that Mr. Razo? I'm curious why you would think you would have a better shot at having a better team and individuals with more students to choose from. If we go by "football" classes, I have been part of the whole spectrum. In high school, I wrestled for Bellmont which would be a 3A school. The past four years I was an assistant coach at Homestead which would be a 5A school. Now I am a head coach at Bluffton which would be a 2A school. This year I was throwing out a line-up of 10 wrestlers. It was hard to compete, though we were able to hold our own and pull out a 9-12 record by giving up 4 forfeits and having two wrestlers that got pinned every match. The selection is minimum, and when it comes to that smaller school the bigger sport of basketball wins. Specially with my school, who has been ranked in the top 5 all year, where I can only get out 7 guys for the middle school team cause the town is brainwashed to play basketball. I have actually became a supporter of class wrestling, and it's not only because I see the situation now of smaller schools. The more success we can add to more teams the better it will do for the sport. More success by wrestlers mean more notice by colleges, meaning more college experience coming back to Indiana to help with future wrestlers. I'd keep going, but I have to go run both high school and middle school practice right now, cause it is even hard to get a full coaching staff for small schools too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyourbase Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Either way the kid states he's the state champion. Do you think David Taylor goes around saying he's the DII State Champion in Ohio? Or what about the Stieber brothers, do they say they are DIII champions? No, they simply state they are state champions. Either way, they know they are 1 of 4 or 5 or however many "State champions". I am talking more individual, you are talking more team, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munges Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 So if size is what is going to make a wrestling power house how is it that there are not more 5a school power houses in wrestling? There are plenty of 5 a schools that are not represented that well at State. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 So if size is what is going to make a wrestling power house how is it that there are not more 5a school power houses in wrestling? There are plenty of 5 a schools that are not represented that well at State. Because there is not a coach there to build it. If enrollment had no effect, there should be an equal amount of big schools and small school team and individual qualifiers. If you were to build a program and had your choice of between Ben Davis and Garrett, where would you choose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cewrestlingfan Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 So if size is what is going to make a wrestling power house how is it that there are not more 5a school power houses in wrestling? There are plenty of 5 a schools that are not represented that well at State. Because there is not a coach there to build it. If enrollment had no effect, there should be an equal amount of big schools and small school team and individual qualifiers. If you were to build a program and had your choice of between Ben Davis and Garrett, where would you choose? Right now I would choose Garrett. The coaching staff there has done an excellent job of building a program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 AJ, What schools have you taught, attended or coached at in your career? What are their sizes? If you had to build a championship team, would you rather choose from 200 boys or 800 boys? If you had one great wrestler and wanted him to succeed to the fullest potential would you rather look for practice partners from 200 kids in the school or 800 kids in the school? These are simple questions that I would love to hear your answers to. Taught - Wilson Middle School Coached/Attended: Wilson Middle School 3 grades and has 414 total males , Muncie Southside High School 535 males Build a championship team: Dont care because it starts when they are young, not the moment they walk in the door as a high school freshman. Practice partner: If I had only 1 great wrestler, would it matter if there was 200 or 800 in the school since I only had 1 good one. But to answer, in this case I would choose 800 so he could keep wearing guys out. Now, are you gonna to tell me my answers are wrong if they do not align with what you percieve the answers should be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 If you were to build a program and had your choice of between Ben Davis and Garrett, where would you choose? I would first research the youth program in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 If you ever want to win a state championship, I know the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munges Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 If you were to build a program and had your choice of between Ben Davis and Garrett, where would you choose? Right now I would choose Garrett. The coaching staff there has done an excellent job of building a program. I would have to agree with this statement. I think what has been going on at Garret is going to bring about some goo results. If you go so some big schools you have to deal with it being a football school and you are up agaisnt the AD and football coach for the athletes. It takes years and years to bring about a good program and it is all about getting the kids to come out when they are little. In Adams county when I was in grade school the amount of kids out for AAU (at that time) was huge. That is why Bellmont has a good program not because of the size of the school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 So if size is what is going to make a wrestling power house how is it that there are not more 5a school power houses in wrestling? There are plenty of 5 a schools that are not represented that well at State. Crown Point 2289 #14 5A Perry Meridian 2132 #23 5A Castle 1786 #43 5A Mishawaka 1692 #47 5A Indianapolis Cathedral 1286 #83 4A Roncalli 1111 #104 4A Bellmont 894 #127 3A Biggest 3A school Delphi Community 522 #224 2A Do I need to say any more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 If you were to build a program and had your choice of between Ben Davis and Garrett, where would you choose? Right now I would choose Garrett. The coaching staff there has done an excellent job of building a program. I would have to agree with this statement. I think what has been going on at Garret is going to bring about some goo results. If you go so some big schools you have to deal with it being a football school and you are up agaisnt the AD and football coach for the athletes. It takes years and years to bring about a good program and it is all about getting the kids to come out when they are little. In Adams county when I was in grade school the amount of kids out for AAU (at that time) was huge. That is why Bellmont has a good program not because of the size of the school. We are more of a football school than we will ever be a wrestling school. We have to share all of our athletes with the other sports programs so they have athletes to fill their lineups. Of the eight we took to regional, five were three sport athletes this past year, three were two sport athletes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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