aoberlin

What if for some miraculous reason, it's not Lee vs Red?

That is why the decision is after the semis. Myself I hope Red loses in the semis. But I am extremely biased.

What kind of slap in the face is it to the heavyweights every year when most of the crowd has left already? I see nothing wrong with adjusting the order of finals matches. Illinois draws a starting weight for their finals and I doubt that offends anyone. So, why not put 132 last? It would definitely assure that all the kids in the finals have the same capacity crowd watching their match under the lights.

I would agree. Adjust every year as far as I am concerned. Create a committee and have them decide every year what match should be last after the semi finals are done. Call it the main event.

We will rise again!!!! Everyone of you trolls can shut it.

It's not true that the other individual sports don't allow you to lose.  All of the sports you mention except for tennis allow you to not be the winner and still advance.  We have to do a better job of helping the IHSAA understand that not having wrestle backs in wrestling is like dividing swimmers or track runners into heats and taking the top 2 per heat to state, no matter their times.  That wouldn't be fair and neither is our random draw system.

Correct.  We have to frame our argument better.

I know one year there was a big presentation of all the examples where a highly ranked wrestler (sometimes undefeated) randomly drew another highly ranked wrestler (sometimes with only 1 loss at Regionals and not from an upset).  As compelling as that presentation was, it still didn't change the IHSAA's mind about what they think is right or fair.

Unless we are missing something taking 5 to State may be a great idea.  It may have been explored before but I am not sure.  This would be something they have allowed before at the Semi-State level and would bring more attendance to State which brings more money.  The logistics of adding another round at the beginning of State would need to be explored.  Maybe we do round one of the 5 vs 4 then round two we do 2 vs 3 first then 1 vs (winner of 5 v 4) to give time for recovery.

I love the ticket round.  Not much compares to it.  To me it's as exciting as the state finals, mostly because so many kids get to be part of it.  I wouldn't want to lose it.  Wrestle backs to 5th to qualify still allows the opportunity for "good draws" while giving "bad draws" another chance they deserve.

I love the excitement of the ticket round also.  But I personally have been affected by the lack of wrestle backs and I have helped coach way too many heart broken kids that should have made the trip to State. 

Our best chance at getting any form of wrestle backs is to use the IHSAA's own idea of wrestling back to 5th, just like they did a few years ago.  Top 5 qualify for state.  No extra time at semistate than they have done before.  

 

4th & 5th placers wrestle first round of state before the winner faces a semistate champ.  Adds about 2 hours to Friday night, but would bring in more money with ticket sales for the IHSAA.  It would actually take less time Friday night if they did this and put 8 mats down - I've been told that is possible at Banker's Life.  

 

It's not full wrestle backs, but does give a chance for terrible draws to have a chance to still qualify.  And those 4th/5th matchups would be fun to watch.  I'm guessing a majority of 5ths would beat 4ths.  That data could be used to try to get full wrestle backs in a few years.

I could live with this!!!  You get 4th or 5th you really have to fight your way back.  Actually I would say it gives the 4th or 5th placer a better chance at beating the number 1 placer because they would have that first match out of the way.

the problem is the IHSAA compares wrestling to other individual sports.  They have been quoted as saying how many times do you get to lose and move on... track, swimming, cross country, tennis,and golf you lose and your done.... so they really don't have sympathy for the wrestling community and the wrestle back thing. 

 

I do know that the state finals got changed so that you can earn your spot for 5th, it use to be that the only way to get to go for 5th was you had to lose in the quarter finals to someone who made it to the finals.  If you lost in quarters and then the person who beat you lost in semis best you could do was 7th. 

That is all understood.  That is why we need to gather data on wrestling in every state to backup our arguments.

How many other States do not have wrestle backs? 

Can we go back and see what the presentations were for wrestle backs in the years past to see if we can add to them or improve on them? Not assuming they were bad just wanting to see them.

I am not ashamed, and I dont see how I am ruining his self esteem. If this kid really has what it takes to pull off an upset like this, i would bet my house that when he sees a comment made like that, his motivation and drive would increase, rather than it ruining or effecting his self esteem.

House?  Does that come with some deer hunting property?

So where did you get your Kerrn information from?

I wouldn't waste any time on his comment.  Even Leo's coach said it was the right call for your team.  It is called "Team" State for a reason.

What's the criteria in the seeding process. I know the 1/4 2/3 concept.

No criteria. A mystery man drawing a number from a hat.

Wrestle backs. Individual class tournament can suck it!

Actually I just bought indianaclasswrestling.com so Joe couldn't.

We could change the URL of this site to indianaclasswrestling.com!!!

I honestly don't think classed wrestling will help that much if at all.  The one thing I know it will do is ruin arguably the best wrestling state tournament in the country.  In my opinion wrestling already is classed and that is by weight class.  I really like the classed team state and I believe that is how it should be.  When the kids get out of high school and decides to do boxing, MMA, or Jui Jitsu will they still be in the classes they were put in during high school?  Nope they will be put in weight classes.  I have just always honestly felt classed individual state champion is a watered down state champ.  There should be only one.  If we were classed anticipated matches have more of a chance of not happening.  (Red vs Lee) 

The bottom line is wrestling isn't for everyone and shouldn't be.  We as coaches have to instill the love of it in the kids because when it is done right it is way too hard to stay committed without passion for it.

Maybe wrestlers are becoming a dying breed but I don't think school sizes have anything to do with it.

Just give me wrestle backs!!!

Castle's 220 barely makes the 184.1lb weight allowance yet is the 2 seed in the sectional.  It's not all about size.  A good technical 95lber could HANDLE a big 106lber who is not a great technician.

Thanks for the lesson.  But we can agree to disagree, it is totally different when you are that small.  I actually weighed 95 pounds my freshman year and there is absolutely no way I could have done anything against a kid that naturally weighs at least 110.

Haha, touche!  I can't imagine the difficulty of trying to find a 95 lb kid to wrestle, that would be a nightmare. 

We have a 95 pounder right now that is actually pretty good but he is just too light to wrestle a kid that is cutting to make 106.

Not going to be a popular opinion, but I would like to see 106 out or merge 106/113 and another middle weight added.  This would allow more upper classmen the chance to crack the varsity lineup and not have a weight class dominated by freshman.  

Joe can I ban him please!!!  I am very protective of the small guys.  I am still really upset they moved it to 106.  Leave the little ones alone.  This sport is the one sport a 100 pound freshman can compete at.  It used be a 95 pound freshman but they changed that.

Andy I didn't know you could crunch the numbers.....we need you over here..

I am over here.  I have and will always be for Northeast Indiana.  I am happy to help coach any kid from anywhere.  When my boys get a little older and time permits I will make my rounds to some other clubs.  SAC will rise again.  I do believe it will be with the help of Carroll and Homestead.

What are some possible solutions that could help us to have less forfeits?  We seem to do a real nice job pointing out problems, but don’t do as well with finding solutions. Here are a few possible ways that I see that could help with forfeits.

 

1.       Combine 106/ 113 into something like 110.  Then add in another middle weight.  That alone would solve some of the forfeit problems.

Make another comment like this Sam and I will drive over in middle of the day and drag you out of your class room in front of your kids and DDT you.

Wrestling is tough to get going in the Indianapolis inner city schools.    Kids are missing out on opportunities.   Not sure what the answer is? 

I would wager you are running into many of the same problems the second biggest school system has in Indiana. 

Indianapolis Public School have 30,813 students and Fort Wayne Community Schools have 30,783.  When you read any topic about the SAC this would be the school district they are talking about.

The statistics help. But really we should be counting how many kids each team has not how many 106 pounders or heavy weights they don't.

Quick quiz. Who remembers what Brooks was quoted in the paper for what his career was going to be after he won State by throwing every opponent like a rag doll?