grappleapple

"Edit: New Castle's shiny records are nice and all but don't tell the story. Their road to semi state and schedule is soft."

You do know that Johnny Loos, who beat Noehre in the first round of semistate - is from the same regional New Castle feeds into, right? And Greenfield and New Castle are in the same conference and semistate.

Just curious, who has Ragle beaten this year? Because according to the seeding info, he lost to the 3 seed Wilkerson.

 

Edit: New Castle's shiny records are nice and all but don't tell the story. Their road to semi state and schedule is soft.

Ragle didn't wrestle Wilkerson this season. If he had, and lost, do you think he would be seeded higher than him? If you look at the results Wilkerson didn't go 120 vs. New Castle at the beginning of the year.

I'm really not sure why you are hating on such an outstanding kid based solely on my prediction that he could win conference. Also, you can claim all you want about New Castle's schedule, but that doesn't change the fact that Ragle lost by two points in the ticket round to get to state.

And, I don't know how good Noehre is. His record is impressive, for sure. And he's a No. 1 seed for a reason. But, you can't get all offended anytime someone picks someone other than your guy to win a match. It's what makes this board fun.

That's the thing... it's just fun. Are we proud of the kids and what we are building?... sure. But at the end of the day it's nothing. The vast majority of the kids don't know about this board or the bs that we all write on here. Please don't take what we post that seriously. Like I said before, we are all trying to chase the success of the region guys. If you are truly troubled about all the talk and branding.... then that's messed up. One thing is certain, each weight class is going to have one champ, and no matter where they are from #TheCounty will be there to congratulate each one. Build a brand and make things interesting... that's it.

Fair enough. Well said. No disrespect intended.

I stopped reading after this.

Why? Ragle placed second at the same weight last year. He was a few points away from going to state last year. He is a quality wrestler who shouldn't be overlooked. Also, Noehre has to get through Stevenson, which will be difficult for anyone. I'd say picking Ragle to win isn't anything absurd at all. Last year Ragle was 41-7 and lost to Dylan Culp 6-4 in the ticket round. Noehre was 33-12 and was pinned by Johnny Loose in the first round of semistate. I know that is last year - but it's certainly not out of the realm of possibilities that Ragle has a shot.

And, these aren't definitive results, these are predictions.

Yes, they said this when our kids was in Elementary Champions, Middle School Champions, Youth National Wrestling Champions and All-Americans . Goals Fellas , GOALS ! Our kids have been Goal Crushers back then and they're going to Crush your way of thinking of them . You may not see yet, maybe your new to Indiana Wrestling, I don't know. I'd wake up and embrace this #newera of wrestling that's going to take Indiana by storm. Their Time is Coming , like it or not . ! IT'S COMING !

Avon is so good I don't even know why the rest of the state has a team. They are probably the sole reason wrestling numbers are down state-wide - because everyone knows that next year Avon will win all 14 championships. I wonder if they could send their JV team and their freshmen team to a few other states and win there too.

This isn't a knock on Avon, it's just a little tiring hearing over and over and over how wrestling starts and ends in Hendricks County.

My predictions

106

Curtis (Y) over West (D)

113

Rose (G) over Owens (NC)

120

Ragle (NC) over Noehre (G)

126

White (NP) over Curtis (Y)

132

Hunt (Y) over Avey (PH)

138

Heistand (Y) over Noehre (G)

145

Buck (NC) over Barr (Y)

152

Rutter (Y) over Johnson (PH)

160

Laughlin (Y) over Melton (NC)

170

Lowe (G) over Pease (D)

182

Gray(D)  over House (NC)

195

Dullaghan (G) over Watson (Y)

220

Burton (NP) over Clouse (NC)

Hvy

Rhoades (Y) over Weurch (MV)

I think 120 is the most stacked class. Team-wise, I think Yorktown wins, Greenfield is second, New Castle 3rd

It seems "Finish Him" is a new catch phrase for some parents. I had flash backs to Mortal Combat on the Sega.

Hoosier Heritage Conference is this week at Delta. Teams are Delta, Greenfield-Central, New Castle, Pendleton Heights, Yorktown, New Palestine, Shelbyville, and Mt. Vernon (Fortville) 

That might be a crowded venue. It worked out pretty well last year at Yorktown. Hopefully this year is equally as nice.

Between that and Valentine's day, you must not see semi-state very often. 

I haven't missed a semistate in 10 years. I have my priorities in line.

My anniversary always seems to fall on semistate weekend. I don't understand why she doesn't think some popcorn and a nice seat in the New Castle Fieldhouse is romantic.

When does this tourney begin?

I really should get actual work done - but wrestling is much more interesting. Here's my unofficial breakdown of the last four years.

I used a scoring format of 4 points for 1st, 3 for 2nd and so on.

2016

New Castle - 4 champs, 5 2nds, 6 thirds, 3 fourths = 46 points

Evansville - 4 champs, 3 2nds, 5 thirds, 4 fourths = 39 points

E. Chicago/Merriville - 6 champs, 5 2nds, 1 third, 5 fourths = 46 points

Ft. Wayne - 0 champs, 1 2nd, 2 thirds, 2 fourth = 9 points

2015

New Castle - 4 champs, 6 2nds, 5 thirds, 5 fourth = 49 points

Evansville - 2 champs, 2 2nds, 5 thirds, 4 fourths = 28 points

E. Chicago/Merriville - 7 champs, 4 seconds, 1 third, 2 fourths = 44 points

Ft. Wayne - 1 champ, 2 2nds, 3 3rds, 3 fourths = 19 points

2014

New Castle - 6 champs, 5 2nds, 2 thirds, 3 4ths = 46 points

Evansville - 4 champs, 1 2nd, 6 thirds, 3 4ths = 34 points

E. Chicago/Merriville - 3 champs, 5 2nds, 3 3rds, 2 4ths = 35 points

Ft. Wayne - 1 champ, 3 2nds, 3 thirds, 2 fourth = 25 points

2013

New Castle - 7 champs, 5 2nds, 4 thirds, 3 fourths = 54 points

Evansville - 1 champ, 1 2nd, 4 thirds, 5 fourths = 20 points

E. Chicago/Merriville - 5 champs, 4 2nds, 1 third, 1 fourth = 35 points

Ft. Wayne - 1 champ, 4 2nds, 5 thirds, 5 fourths = 30

Total over 4 years

1) New Castle 195

2) E. Chicago/Merriville  160

3) Evansville 120

4) Ft. Wayne 83

For whatever it's worth

Yes

So any breakdown of state champs/final fours by semi-state from last year? As i recall from last year, there are some quite capable statisticians on this site. If it has already been posted, i missed it from laughing so hard at greco165s "ouch".

I didn't do Final Fours - I just went top 2. Here's the breakdown

Champs:

East Chicago - 6

New Castle - 4

Evansville - 4

Runners-up

East Chicago - 5

New Castle - 5

Evansville - 3

Ft. Wayne - 1

Phil McDaniel - two time 4th place finisher in the Tri High sectional. Once snuck into the hospitality room and took the last piece of fried chicken ahead of the New Castle coaching staff. No other wrestler has ever been that brave before. It's the stuff legends are made of.

It seems this tourney is always in the dark ages as far as information goes. There are lots of good wrestlers and good schools participating, but it's very difficult to find any info on this. Last year Y2 posted the results. I think he posted some scanned copies, but at least we had something.

I understand the rules and situation, Just wish the State would let parents do what they need to do Parent.. Kids may want to transfer move whatever, but ultimately it's Mom and Dad that make the choice. Be it a new job or a better life for their kids. A coaches influence can only go so far and i feel is a weak reason to halt a kid. Honestly it's not like the kids moved out of the house away from their parents. Got a house a job and started school just to play a sport a coach may or may not have influenced them to play. If the school paid them or gave them free stuff sure but this is clearly not the case.  Let them wrestle and the drama stop. Life is short and not worth wasting a kids dream away in a court battle. 

 

Sorry if i offended anyone. Just my 2 cent.

There have been instances where kids will stay with family or friends in order to compete at a certain school.

They have a good, young team. Gary Black is a highly energetic coach that is a fiery competitor. He has devoted a lot of time to them.

But someone also said that the move was closer to the fathers work. Im sorry but the past link to a coaching staff/athletic reasons should not come in to play imo. Being that we live in indiana where weather can get bad, driving an hour to work (which I do) is terrible and dangerous. If the family moved closer to work that should be a strong enough reason.

I think in this situation the Moran brothers should be able to wrestle. But, somewhere you have to have some safety measures, I feel, so in other cases coaches can't work with kids in the offseason and convince them to switch schools. I'm certainly not saying it happened here, but I do feel there needs to be measures in place to stop "recruiting" quality athletes.

Will any of this be live streamed? If so, is it on a pay site?

Again, the majority of your post are to predict the failure of our team. You predicted that we would get smoked by a very good Brownsburg team (of which we lost be only one match). Then you went on to say that the defending state champ is not that good and will be beat by multiple kids. Me personally... I don't make predictions that other kids will fail. I have probably coached a kid or two at one time or another on most or the other top teams and have seen them grow up. I have seen these kids put in countless hours of hard work. That's why I stay away from that stuff. I guess I just have too much respect for them to pick against them. Not everyone shares that view and I can respect that also. Sure... everyone is entitled to an opinion. It is very fun to see the people on this board debating who will come out on top (people that identify who they are and have knowledge). This forum is great. Joe has created one of the best wrestling sites on the planet. But... sure as the sun will rise on every day, a nameless faceless poster will get on here and sell the top kids short, or discredit the hard work of these KIDS. All I have done is point out the fact that you are kinda obsessed about predicting the future results if our KIDS, and have been wrong thus far. And you are right... this is an opinion based board. And again... my opinion is that you are obsessed with predicting our failure. Also... it is my opinion that your opinions should be given no cred. Lastly... Dont worry about me taking things seriously... don't think that anybody takes your opinions seriously. I just wanted to take the time to say... our kids work hard (like many other teams) don't let some faceless person sell them short. Cmon man! Move on!

I read and reread the post. I just don't see the big deal. This is a forum where we constantly predict winners and losers. Just because someone predicts a wrestler will lose - doesn't mean they are taking away anything from that wrestler. Half of this forum would be closed down if we can't predict winners and losers. And this user wasn't focusing on a wrestler losing as much as he was promoting another wrestler he thought would win.

From what I read, this poster thinks Garcia is beatable. Pretty much every wrestler to ever don a singlet in this state is beatable. I don't see that as being a negative. It's fun to make predictions - but we all know the real proof is what actually happens on the mat.

I agree. I've always felt that the best way to increase numbers is any sport is by having an energetic coach that can connect with the athletes, but, more importantly - having athletes that talk their friends into participating.

Mid-Week duals get kids wrestling in front of their peers and community.  People are much more likely to turn out to watch one round of matches on a Tuesday evening than they are to watch multiple rounds of wrestling (much of which will be kids they don't know) on a Saturday.  This is especially true when that means driving more than 45 minutes.  When young athletes get recognized and their hard work is observed by people they care about, they are more likely to begin and continue participating in an activity.  Additionally, the coaches can take some responsibility over weight-management through the week.  If people are adhering to the spirit of the weight-management rules as they are supposed to, making weight for the next class up to a degree that weight could still be made on Saturday should not be a consistent issue.  People have a had the same complaints about teenagers since the beginning of civilization.  Complaining that kids aren't tough enough doesn't really solve the problem.  Some are tough enough, some are not.  We need to make sure we have a system in place that makes the ones that are feel like their efforts are worth it.  We can't expect them to appreciate the lessons of a sport that can't be truly understood until it is performed.

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

 

- Socrates

 

Kids haven't changed.  We just became grown ups. 

In theory, yes, mid-week duals will get more participation from fans. But that's not reality in most cases. I'd say in larger populated areas you can get a dual with two full-lineups and put on a pretty good show. But in lots of smaller populated areas the duals end up being a bunch of forfeits and then it's over. I know last year we went to a dual out of town and the other team - a 3A school, had five wrestlers. We paid the entry fee, got concessions and then before we could even finish the popcorn the dual was over. I don't think that helped promote anything.

I love rivalries, and know those will help the sport's participation. But I still think in weekend duals we know who we might be up against and what good matchups there might be. It's never a guarantee. But I'd rather drive 45 minutes on a Saturday and maybe get three real matches than drive three times during the week and maybe get one.

The talking points of this article are ideas of getting higher participation in wrestling, from what I gather. I don't think making more mid-week duals will help that in the least bit. In fact, it will probably hurt it. Kids don't want to make weight two and three times a week. Most wrestlers I know like the Saturday multi-dual events. They make weight once and get to wrestle up to 5 times.

As far as the uniform change - I don't particularly like the idea of the two-piece uniform - but I'm not resistant to it either.

I'd say declining numbers aren't so much about how the sport is currently ran, as it is the culture of the kids in school. Used to be, where I'm from, there would be 20 kids cut from the basketball team each year. Now they are looking to get kids to go out for the team. Football participation is down, as are many other sports. A lot of kids simply don't want to put in the work it takes to be good at wrestling.

If numbers are your end game - go to two day a week practices and promise kids they won't have to run. As it is, the kids that want to wrestle enjoy the hard work, the long Saturdays and even the uniforms. The kids that don't want to wrestle, generally, are the ones that wouldn't want to as long as hard work is involved.

End of long rant.

My current guesses would be:

106 - Black

113 - Garcia

120 - Mejia

126 - Cummings

132 - Bailey

138 - Rumph

145 - Lee

152 - Warren

160 - Lee

170 - Van Horn (I think this is the weight he will end up at)

182 - Gray

195 - Stewart

220 - Paris

285 - Little Streck