Y2CJ41

I guess in your mind we should just let people lie to us in the future. They messed up royally and  you can't for one minute think that if they try mandating ANYTHING next year for freestyle state that people will follow it. Wrestling people don't forget things like this and talking to others they were none too happy about the situation. 

As much of a reasonable solution that you presented is, the ISWA is in a precarious position after this week.  First off, no one trusts their "rules" now. If they try to implement even a reasonable suggestion such as one event or something like this, people will just try to petition into state next year. All gains made at the local tournaments are lost, meaning they will be back to where they were last year.  The ISWA is all but forced to go back to no qualifying procedure or they will pretty much kill the international styles.There are 800 upset people right now within the organization, if not more after this week's happenings. That is the simple truth, unfortunately I am not going to expect much to be done by the ISWA as it seems from their actions this week and over the past five weeks that they believe they did nothing wrong. I surely hope I am wrong with that previous statement, but that is the vibe I have gotten from this weekend.

I had a parent tell me a great solution to right the ship and I will share it. However, I'm not too confident that the ISWA would take these kind of steps as it would be too reasonable. The solution would be to make freestyle state free next year for kids that followed the rules this year and got two qualifiers in. This would show great appreciation for those that followed the rules and made sacrifices. In all honesty this is probably the best and most common sense way to win back the trust of those that were slighted by this week's actions.

Time will tell if the ISWA makes amends to those who followed their "rules."

That is just a suggestion now. Obviously it wasn't enforced.

You'd have to ask a board member for exact numbers. When I was on the board the discounts were $100-300 per individual for each trip. This isn't exactly advertised however. Basically the ISWA takes a big chunk of their profits from the previous year and creates a pool for funding of the national trips. They split this up per trip and applies it to the cost of the trip. Just as an example, say the ISWA budget says it will cost $1000 for the Fargo trip(gear, entry, transportation, housing, food, etc). If they determine they are using $200 per kid for the trip, the ending cost is $800(note these numbers are all fictional). That's the basics of it.

Louis,

Thank you for your response. However, as stated before MANY people made sacrifices to get to two events. People missed family weddings, missed out on national events, missed work, missed SAT/ACT testings, etc. These same people were told "there will be no exceptions" made to this rule. Now all of a sudden there are exceptions being made. Does the ISWA realize the ramifications of all of this? What rules can we now get a petition around? Can a kid get a waiver for 5 extra pounds on the scale because he twisted his ankle and couldn't cut weight? Can a kid get a waiver to not even have to weigh in?

Rules were made, they were followed by many people whether they agreed with the rule or not. Now they are being told this rule was a joke. I was told in March there would be a waiver process. I was told in a text this week that "you knew there would be waivers granted." What are we teaching kids with this? What are you saying about the rules your organization sets forth? The ramifications of this will be felt for a while. If you decide to keep the two tournament requirement next year people will laugh and just wait for the waiver period. Any gains the local tournaments felt this year will be lost next year.

There are over 10% of the entries that most likely didn't get two local events in. What kind of waiver process is it when everyone that asks for one gets in?

In the end this leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. I try to support the ISWA as much as possible, but this is one situation where you guys royally messed up. Usually the ISWA thinks things through, but from what I was told...it was almost unanimous on the board to allow waivers. That is not a good sign for the organization.

I'm not going to hold my breath on them making a statement. You might get something out of one of the leaders this weekend, but in all honesty it seems as if they really don't care too much right now.

I don't agree that they are allowing waivers, but I do agree w/ the process of growing at the grassroots level. They should have stuck to their guns, it would have dipped this year, more tourneys would have popped up next year, and growth would have been seen in 3-5 years. By allowing the waivers this process will be delayed by a year now. 

By allowing waivers no one will take the threats of going to a local tournament next year seriously. 

I wouldn't expect anything from the ISWA. They rarely have people post on here unless it is Nick Hull promoting the Junior Duals Team.

Devils advocate: if you knew the two tourney rule was not going to be enforced why didn't you tell the kids in your program who quit training?

 

This whole issue is a debacle from beginning to end, and as usual the kids are the ones who suffer.  Common sense isn't that common apparently.

Because I want my kids to follow the rules. I know it is something crazy in this day in age, but I prefer to not have to skirt the rules.

Do you know for a fact they intended to backtrack the entire time?  I think it's fair to question their judgment about changing the rule, but your quote above is essentially saying the ISWA intentionally conspired to change the rule the whole time. Questioning their integrity and their decision making are two different things, in my opinion.

Yes I do

i don't know enough of what happened with the individual that got a waiver to have an opinion, but if the kid was actually injured and got a waiver, I honestly don't know what the issue is. If a kid went out and got two tournaments in, why don't we look at that in a different manner. That kid went out and competed! What's the point in wrestling freestyle, if you just hide in your high school or club room for two months and train freestyle, then pull out the singlet come that first week in May?? 

If an individual was injured I have no problem with a waiver, what-so-ever. However, this should have been communicated a long time ago. I know of a kid who ENTERED an event, meaning he weighed in and PAID, only to default out because he wasn't medically cleared. He only did this to get his "name on the brackets" to get a tournament in. Just now this family is learning that they didn't have to do that. There are others that wrestled banged up that would have LOVED to have a week off to heal up...but didn't in order to get their tournaments in.

To me, if you want kids to participate you can't have the 2 tournament rule. With so many national tournaments nowadays, the amount of weekends in which these kids are available to compete in freestyle tournaments is minimal. In the same sense however, I really think we need to be pushing freestyle and greco. You can look at the statistics, over 85% of NCAA Division One All-Americans competed in Fargo. Freestyle and greco are going to help our state in the future. The real issue here is, how do we get our state to balance these big national folkstyle events in the spring and freestyle/greco? I don't think blasting kids on this forum because they were hurt and got a waiver. It sounds to me that a lot of people are upset because their kids are not wrestling due to the lack of tournaments in their area. The solution: host a tournament! I can think of one really big preseason tournament over in Northeast Indiana, so hosting a saturday freestyle open should not be out of line. Instead of blaming the ISWA, i think we should take it upon ourselves to host freestyle tournaments and promote it more. Quit pointing the finger and take a little bit of responsibility

Since you decided to all but call me out......

We have not called out any individual kids, this is about a rule the ISWA made and MANY people made it to two events in only five weeks...but now they go back on their mandate and say that you can get a waiver.

There are kids on there that were not injured and went to national events instead of a local freestyle event.

Lastly, I am not complaining about a lack of events. The kids that I coach that WANTED to go to freestyle state did the right thing and found two events. The ones that looked at the calendar and couldn't make two events...trained very little if any freestyle. 

Do you make rules for your team or family, then after half of them fulfill the requirements say..."awe you didn't have to do that, I really wasn't going to enforce that rule anyway."

Disappointed to hear the ISWA did this. There were a bunch of wrestlers/families who traveled, spent money, cancelled or put aside other important obligations in order to commit to this and now it has been undone.

 

Now the ISWA should begin to look at the Nationals Duals team selection process.  At first glance I saw an upper weight Junior wrestler who appears to have only wrestled in Freestyle State once in the past 3 years and did not place.  In addition this wrestler hasn't even participated in a single ISWA Freestyle or Greco event this season or last. How has this wrestler has been selected to be on the team? His only qualification was a good 2015 high school season.  The only other thing I can find is that he may be close to one of the coaches, but I can't be sure this is the case. I would guess there are others of similar circumstance but haven't had time to check.  According to the coaches of this team from a posting earlier in the year they want to be competitive with other states like Illinois in Freestyle and Greco on a national level...odd they would select wrestlers who lack any participation in Freestyle and Greco this season (or last) on a local or state level. 

 

At least select kids who are participating in a couple of Freestyle and Greco tournaments this season. 

Shouldn't they need to wrestle in these styles in this weekends State in order to make your team seem legitimate?

 

Oh, by the way if you would like to tout this as a tune up for Fargo shouldn't the team consist of kids who actually qualify for Fargo?

The Junior Duals team is another subject....I see both sides and as always there is no easy or perfect solution.

There are only two from the Carmel duals I have listed, that is the Davison brothers.

I could be wrong but Joes doc only represent guys that have wrestled at least one tourney. I know guys listed that have wrestled multiple but it only lists one

I agree w Tskin. One drink for every protest vote...we'll show them!!!

These are all the tournaments that were on TrackWrestling and the list of their participants. The only event I know of that isn't on the list is the Carmel Freestyle Duals with Carmel, Garrett, and Greenfield-Central.

Right, but 800+ kids got to participate in the sport you and I love, I don't see this as a bad thing. Ok, they broke their own "rule" to allow more people to participate, how is that a bad thing? Don't we want more people to participate and help facilitate growth in the sport? 

Because there are others who followed this rule that is not a rule after all. 

One parent above said he spent $400 one weekend to get a tournament in for his son. Another kids missed a family wedding to get a tournament in. Others skipped out on national tournaments to get a local one in. Others wrestled injured or just "donated" money to get a tournament in. Now all of a sudden these people didn't have to do that. 

It's bad that you force people to follow the rules up until the week of the event. This is about setting rules and following them, the ISWA is setting a precedent with the abrupt changes.

I have no dog in the fight, but I regularly read that everything we do as a wrestling community should be about growing the sport. It seems that giving kids the opportunity to wrestle would be what is best for kids and help grow the sport. Whether it's giving a waiver for freestyle state or moving to class wrestling, having more people participate is what is best for the sport to grow, am I missing the problem? 

You're missing the point...the ISWA made a rule and 800+ kids followed it. They spent time and money, made sacrifices to get these two tournaments in over just 5 weeks. There are numerous instances of people going to great lengths to get their two tournaments in. Now the ISWA is saying that this rule...well isn't a rule any more and will let anyone in.

Not a good thing when people made the sacrifices to attend the local events only to be told it was for nothing.

There was a kid a couple weeks ago that entered and weighed in for an event even though he wasn't medically cleared! He didn't wrestle, but NEEDED to get one of this tournaments in. So his family donated $40 to a tournament to get this done. Now the ISWA is telling that family that they could have gotten a waiver. This is bad business and if I were that parent I would be furious that I was forced to donate $40 for this.

Just heard of a kid who missed a family member's wedding to go to a local tournament. Now he is basically being told, "just kidding you didn't have to do that, but thanks for your sacrifice." 

Not a good situation when kids and parents made sacrifices to go to events and now are being told they could have just petitioned in.

Well, I am just hoping someone shows me up by getting a bunch of donors for the ihswca, that would sure prove me wrong. 

Why aren't the current heads of the organization looking into it? We have an executive officer, president, vice president, secretary and a host of committee members.....

Have they called those companies? Have they called others? Simple yes or no questions....

seriously yes if they were going to do a waiver I think sooner rather than later would of been better.  on the other hand atleast they are trying to help the ones that truely want to go but couldn't make the two events.

 

Not sure what side i fall on in this discussion...

I would be pretty upset as a parent knowing I ponied up money for gas, entry, food, even hotels to get two events in when I didn't really have to. 

Fill out the waiver for little Billy that u want in, and let everyone else make there argument themselves. What good are you doing for wrestlers or wrestling by putting kids on blast for wanting to compete.

 

Maybe the ISWA dropped the ball or should have waited till next season to start this new qualification? I'm not sure what's right, but help in the matter instead of throwing all under the bus.

My kids that saw they weren't getting two tournaments in quit training freestyle. The ones that did now see they wasted time and money as they could have spent 5 minutes writing a flimsy excuse. 

The ISWA is dropping the ball by now allowing kids to skirt their rules.

Guys so it seems like everyone cries of injustice on the two qualifier requirement has found a compromise.  I haven't attended a ISWA meeting this year except for the bid meeting so not sure on the discussion they had on this but it looks like they have tried to help the "no love for the north" people to make sure they can still attend State.  So now, by them trying to help out the people who cried foul about the qualifiers, will we see a backlash that now that didn't follow the rules they set forth?

 

Curious to see how this will unfold I will go pop some popcorn and come back to read the comments. 

All my kids that looked at the calendar and said "can't make two freestyle events" stopped training freestyle. There was no point to it. I'm sure that was the case for many others.

When you make a rule, follow it. You are now telling all 800+ people that went to two events that "well you didn't have to, but thanks."

Funny this comes from the guy who complains about no tourneys up north. Might have had something to do with getting a tourney going up that way, then had only 2 wrestlers show up. Does that sound right?

 

Why would you stir the pot? Seems like you would worry about your situation and not everyone else's.

 

The fact that you have to make 2 of a 4-5 week freestyle season is ridiculous to me as well. I certainly would not cry about kids getting in if the ISWA let's them thou. I had 1 kid register for 3 tourneys. Wrestled a total of 2 matches at 1 tourney against the same kid. I'm sure he is fit and ready for state after paying, I'm mean winning his medals.

 

Y2 you should be the guy that promotes wrestling for all not what just affects your area. Come down and see how the east central side of the state is. The north should be thankful

This has nothing to do with "my area" as you like to put it, it has to do with setting rules and FOLLOWING them.

I don't like it when someone makes a rule, then lets a bunch of exceptions in. There were 800+ kids that fulfilled the requirements and now we have people who can just send a letter and not have to go through the same hoops the others had to go through. I had a parent ask the ISWA a couple weeks ago about the requirement since their son could only get one event in due to work obligations. They said NO, so he had to take off of work to go wrestle two matches to qualify. Now, if they would have just waited they would have just had to make up some flimsy excuse and get it.

I was just forwarded this from our club director, sounds like you didn't have to go to two events after all.

Not good ISWA, NOT GOOD! 

I know of kids that skipped out on going to USAW Folkstyle Nationals to get a tournament in

I know of kids that drove 2 hours to pay and weigh-in to get a tournament in

I know of kids that were legitimately injured and not even cleared medically that paid and weighed in to get a tournament in

NOW all of a sudden they allow people to petition in???

Letter to club leaders.pdf

Dear ISWA Board Members,

The flyer for the Freestyle State Finals states, “All participants must compete in a minimum of 2 Local level Freestyle tournaments in order to compete at the State event.”

In looking at the current entries it appears as if some kids who didn’t participate in two local freestyle tournaments are now being allowed to wrestle at state. You are opening a can of worms that will leave a big black eye on your organization if these kids are allowed to wrestle. You told people that, jobs WERE NOT an excuse, national events WERE NOT an excuse, Grandma Betty’s birthday WAS NOT an excuse, spring break WAS NOT an excuse, participating in baseball or track WAS NOT an excuse, and so on. The only viable reason that should be allowed is an injury that is accompanied by a doctor’s note.

Now it is time to step up and follow the rules you set forth for your membership. How the organization responds to this will affect the future more than you can imagine. If you set rules and allow people to get around them you will create a chaotic atmosphere that will not look good upon the organization.

Thank you