maligned Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 Just a thought for future. I think it would be nice to breakdown points a little more. Making points different for placements at each level. A team with 9 champs shouldn't be equal to a team with 9 4th place finishers, no matter what level of the state tournament. Also eliminate the points for sectional 5th/6th. Getting 6th at sectional is not much different than not placing at all, and in most cases the wrestlers get forfeits to place 5th/6th. 9 champs aren't the same as 9 4th place, but the differentiation comes later. Losers in the first round of semi-state get separated from those that advance. There's essentially a category for guys that are only regional 3/4 quality (semi-state first round losers), and then all the further differentiation as guys advance. That's why you have to be patient for the scores to unfold. 5/6 at sectional absolutely means something--especially below 3A. All of the research shows a very big difference between bringing back an underclassman that placed 5/6 compared to one that didn't. For the top sectionals, you have to finish ahead of a kid from, on average, a 30 to 40 Genius level team's kid just to place top 6. You're right that it doesn't matter for thinner sectionals, but we have to work from averages and allow the multiplier to play its role--then see how things develop in the last 2 weeks as the multiplier gets removed and deserving teams start scoring big points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tskin Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Maligned what they could be referencing is that a Regional Champ could till get upset in first round of Semi-State and thus he would score the same as a regional 4th place finisher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 Maligned what they could be referencing is that a Regional Champ could till get upset in first round of Semi-State and thus he would score the same as a regional 4th place finisher. He definitely could, but in general, the guys who lose in the first round of semi-state (no matter their placement at regional) are the ones that truly deserve to be slotted as approximately Regional 3/4-level guys. Most of the 1's who lose to 4's are not state contenders but rather quality wrestlers who benefited from a below-average regional at their weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeandBreighton Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Here's a scenario, you have 9 champs, I have a solid team. My 9 4th place finishers all lose decisions to your champs. My other 5 wrestlers, pin your other 5. My "TEAM" wins 30-27, but according to this formula, your team is considered better, because they went further in the individual tourney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Here's a scenario, you have 9 champs, I have a solid team. My 9 4th place finishers all lose decisions to your champs. My other 5 wrestlers, pin your other 5. My "TEAM" wins 30-27, but according to this formula, your team is considered better, because they went further in the individual tourney. yeah, of course there are plenty of scenarios like that. But we have to go off of averages and generalities to develop a scoring system. We can't possibly incorporate all the what-ifs that don't normally happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeandBreighton Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 yeah, of course there are plenty of scenarios like that. But we have to go off of averages and generalities to develop a scoring system. We can't possibly incorporate all the what-ifs that don't normally happen. what do you do to account for move ins, move outs, and incoming freshmen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 So if Penn State scores more during the NCAA tournament, we should consider Minnesota National Champs this year, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 So if Penn State scores more during the NCAA tournament, we should consider Minnesota National Champs this year, right? NCAA coaches are having this same discussion. (Almost) everyone recognizes that wrestling a full line up head to head is the best way to determine who has the best team yet the only system in place to give an award to the best team can be won by a team with 4 studs and 10 non-studs. Which system is more flawed? The IHSAA's or the IHSWCA's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 So if Penn State scores more during the NCAA tournament, we should consider Minnesota National Champs this year, right? I'm still in favor of saying Tournament champions if your schools participants win the NCAA title, or in the case of high school the state tournament. Then if you have a actual dual championship as the NCAA are developing/tweaking or some other way of determining the top team call them the Team Dual Champions (Regular Season Team Champions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 what do you do to account for move ins, move outs, and incoming freshmen? We're implementing a standardized information sheet for teams eligible for the vote this year that allows for inclusion of some of this information. There's of course no possible way to include things like in-season move-ins and injuries and dropouts and all of that. That's the reason we would love to get a weigh-in exemption so we could do some invitations in the same season as the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 How do you determine the strength/weakness of a sectional? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 How do you determine the strength/weakness of a sectional? Genius Ratings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Genius Ratings. You average all the ratings of the teams involved? Just curious.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 You average all the ratings of the teams involved? Just curious.... From the selection procedures document: 1. The multipliers were calculated using this season’s Genius ratings and last season’s individual state series results in a data analysis technique which isolated the true difficulty of each team’s tournament path (in terms of earning points for this duals event). The multiplier will adjust teams’ scores to reflect their proper value as if they wrestled in an average quality tournament path. The multiplier for each sectional reflects the overall difficulty for its teams to score points throughout the state series. Values range between 0.70 and 1.24. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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