maligned Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 I'm not just saying this for Bellmont, but other teams as well. Basing qualification on underclassmen in the previous here's lineup is no justification on how the team will be the next season. To penalize a team for a lineup full of seniors doesn't seem right. No one knows how JV members will contribute the next season, or how well an incoming class of Freshmen will do. Move this tournament to the end of three year and figure out a qualifying process for that season. I heart there is an open weekend after individual state like always. All of us are dying for that scenario...but the IHSAA simply won't allow us to do it...and other times later in the season when we'd have more information about teams cause so many scheduling conflicts that no coaches wanted it. We're handcuffed and trying to work with what we've got. And just to be clear: points are awarded for seniors...just not as many as for underclassmen...only what percentage of their points a team of their quality is expected, on average, to be able to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I don't dispute Bellmont being better than Muncie South this year. But Muncie South wrestled very well in the tournament last year when they needed to while Bellmont fell flat. I know we are picking on you now ;D , but Bellmont fell flat last year? Off the top of my head 8th place at the state finals Qualified for team state Yorktown would have been the only 2A team ahead of us 4 Semi-State Champions 3 or 4 ticket round guys We took 13 to regional I think, and 9 to Semi-State We also took a 5th placer at sectional in 2012 and he became a Regional Runner-up in 2013. I am not sure falling flat is the right term (that term might be better for this year, but not last year) I think in the end , it is impossible for a mathematical formula to figure out how a team of fourteen guys is going to perform next year when only two of those fourteen will be back in the lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 I think in the end , it is impossible for a mathematical formula to figure out how a team of fourteen guys is going to perform next year when only two of those fourteen will be back in the lineup. With this point, I definitely agree that a "season-before" point system is always going to have limitations. When I said that Bellmont "fell flat" last year in the individual postseason (not team), you're right I was using too strong of a word. I meant that by their standards, the postseason didn't go as well as sometimes. Only 2 of 4 underclassmen beyond sectional. Only 5 total beyond first round of semi-state...again, by your standards and by what you needed to get top 8, you could have done more. If 2 of your underclassmen had advanced one more level (from sectional to regional or from regional to semi-state), you'd have been in the voting and most certainly would have been selected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1894life Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 updates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 later today or very early tomorrow morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 You guys are slacking I would fine you if I were in charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Ha. It was friday after sectional and thursday last week, so I'd say if we can get it wrapped up today we're doing alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 You should put in for a raise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 Scores now updated through semi-state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Good work Maligned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 14, 2013 Author Share Posted February 14, 2013 Thanks. I get all the little "thank you's" in the pm box, but you guys have busted your butts behind the scenes. Nice work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 Below are UNOFFICIAL qualifying positions post-state. (some data still needs cross-checking; all positions are UNOFFICIAL until 2013-14 IHSAA enrollment figures are released this week or next week. NO ONE SHOULD CELEBRATE YET!) **Seven (7) teams on the enrollment cut lines have stars...their potential class movement described below (New Palestine, Centerville also summarized below)** 3A summary: Merrillville champ: Merrillville Ft. Wayne champ: East Noble New Castle champ: Perry Meridian Evansville champ: Franklin 1st and 2nd wildcards: Penn, Warren Central Eligible for 3rd & 4th wildcard vote: Cathedral, Carroll Eligible for 4th wildcard vote: Bloomington South, Mishawaka, Evansville Mater Dei 2A summary: Merrillville champ: Plymouth** Ft. Wayne champ: Yorktown New Castle champ: Lebanon** Evansville champ: Danville 1st and 2nd wildcards: Jasper**, Leo Eligible for 3rd & 4th wildcard vote: Western, Heritage Hills, Peru, Fairfield, Evansville Memorial, Jimtown, New Prairie, Hanover Central, Twin Lakes, Culver Academies Eligible for 4th wildcard vote: North Montgomery, Delphi** 1A summary: Merrillville champ: Bremen Ft. Wayne champ: Fremont New Castle champ: Clinton Central Evansville champ: South Putnam 1st and 2nd wildcards: Adams Central, South Adams Eligible for 3rd & 4th wildcard vote: Southridge**, Churubusco, Oak Hill**, West Central, Cass, Manchester, Central Noble, Prairie Heights Eligible for 4th wildcard vote: North Knox, Cardinal Ritter, Triton Central**, Eastside Enrollment change scenarios The following possible class changes would cause the effects listed below. All scenarios described are listed as if they are the ONLY change taking place. Obviously, multiple changes for a particular class will bring in more scenarios: --New Palestine: Could drop to 2A and would become the New Castle auto bid. Lebanon would be in the group of 3rd and 4th wildcard-eligible teams. No one else effected. --Lebanon: Could move up to 3A and would be eliminated from contention. North Montgomery would become the 2A auto bid for New Castle. --Plymouth: Could move up to 3A and would be eliminated from contention. Twin Lakes would become the 2A auto bid for Merrillville. --Jasper: Could move up to 3A and would be eliminated from contention. Western would become the 2nd automatic wildcard; Delphi and N. Montgomery would be eligible for both wildcard positions. --Delphi: Could move down to 1A and would be the highest scoring team eligible for both wildcards. Only Southridge would be eligible for both wildcards with them. All others now eligible for both wildcards would only be eligible for 4th wildcard. All those eligible for only 4th wildcard would be eliminated from contention. --Centerville: Could move down to 1A and would be eligible for the 4th wildcard vote. --Southridge: Could move up to 2A and would be eliminated from contention. Teams now eligible for 4th wildcard only would be eligible for 3rd also. North White would become eligible for 4th wildcard. --Oak Hill: Could move up to 2A and would be eliminated from contention. --Triton Central: Could move up to 2A and would be eliminated from contention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panthers1 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 JUST CHECKING ON THIS. ELWOOD BEAT OAK HILL IN A DUAL AND TOURNEY. WITH ONLY LOSING 2 SENIORS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdpd8b Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 JUST CHECKING ON THIS. ELWOOD BEAT OAK HILL IN A DUAL AND TOURNEY. WITH ONLY LOSING 2 SENIORS As I have been repeatedly told..."Doesn't matter what happens in a dual meet" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 As I have been repeatedly told..."Doesn't matter what happens in a dual meet" This is an oversimplification. The scoring is designed to allow teams to prove how strong their dual meet team will be next year. However, you only earn points during the individual state tournament series--then your team's collective score is compared against others. If two teams met during the season, this is considered once the voting process begins for the last two wildcards. Elwood only had 10 guys score in the tournament (meaning in 4 weights you either a) forfeited or had underclassmen with less than 10 matches not advance to regional). Oak Hill has 13 full-time starters returning, including 5 that were at semi-state. You only have 8 full-time starters coming back, including only 3 making it out of sectionals. Unfortunately, no matter what you managed to pull off in the dual--even with your team getting far better multiplier points for a stronger sectional and regional--you don't come close in a points system that tells us about NEXT year, not this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiralride1 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 When will we know if a school moves up or down? Fall/August? Thanks for all the hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 We were told before sectional that the data would be released by the IHSAA "sometime in February". So, in theory, that's by Thursday of next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 26, 2013 Author Share Posted February 26, 2013 Official final scores, pending IHSAA enrollment numbers, are now on the first post of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdpd8b Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 So when does the voting take place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 The new enrollments were released today. http://www.ihsaa.org/Media/MediaReleases/201213/22613/tabid/1417/Default.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 26, 2013 Author Share Posted February 26, 2013 Working on it...a few significant changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 26, 2013 Author Share Posted February 26, 2013 Schools affected by re-classification: New to 3A: Indy Northwest, Plymouth, Jasper New to 2A (down): New Haven, Kankakee Valley, Roncalli New to 2A (up): Southridge, Indy Washington, Indy Cardinal Ritter, Oak Hill, Indy Marshall (North Posey NOT affected...still 1A) New to 1A: Woodlan, Indy Broad Ripple, Indy Howe, Indy Manual, Indy Arlington Qualification ramifications will be discussed on the first post of this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 26, 2013 Author Share Posted February 26, 2013 Scores, qualifiers, and summaries of each class are now updated on the first post of this thread to include all official scores and the correct classification assignments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintagecs Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 On what date will the tournament take place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade1995 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I think North Knox, the only school in the 1A from down south, needs to be voted in because they only lost one senior in the lineup and had great season. They had a big upset in their sectionals coming out as fourth in the team score if they get the chance to come up they will for sure give those other schools a run for their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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