Central vs. Castle Sectional....Time for the Gloves to Come Off

[hook and half]

i am speaking, of course, of the two primary pugilistic prognosticating palookas of the message board, bluebolt1 and wrestleman. 

 

gentlemen, what are your predictions?  will the extra siac spice inject castle with enough horsepower to be supreme?  or, will the pike/gibson/knox infusion allow central to reign?

 

let's hear the numbers!

[Jon H]

106:  CA

113:  CA

120:  CA

126:  CA

132:  CA

138:  CE

145:  CE

152:  CA

160:  CE

170:  CA

182:  CE

195:  CA

220:  CA

285:  CE

[1prouddad]

Jon H beat me to it 9-5 Castle region. Though 170 and 182 could very well flip sides on these battles

[hook and half]

not champs, let's look at how many from each sectional will advance to semi state.

[1prouddad]

not champs, let's look at how many from each sectional will advance to semi state.

here's my opinion

106- CA-1  CE-3

113- CA-3  CE-1

120- CA sweep only cause of my dark horse pick

126- CA-3  CE-1

132- SPLIT 2 apiece

138- SPLIT

145- SPLIT

152- CA-1  CE-3

160- SPLIT

170- SPLIT

182- CA-3 CE-1

195- CASTLE  SWEEP

220- SpLIT

285- CENTRAL SWEEP

 

CASTLE-31

CENTRAL-25  just my opinion

[WrestleMan]

Ok, here we go.  I think we will have 8 champs from Castle and 6 from Central.  This could go 9 to 5 Castle or 7 to 7 with a minor upset.  If everything goes the Central sectional way, it could be 9 to 5 Central sectional, but that isn't likely to happen.  I think the old proud dad is pretty close on SS qualifiers, but he is still crazy picking Arney over Johnson.  I'm going to call it a little closer 29-27 Castle sectional.  Obviously, I like Johnson beating Arney and I think Bassmeier will qualify at 182 out of Central.

 

Should be interesting. 

[1prouddad]

Ok, here we go.  I think we will have 8 champs from Castle and 6 from Central.  This could go 9 to 5 Castle or 7 to 7 with a minor upset.  If everything goes the Central sectional way, it could be 9 to 5 Central sectional, but that isn't likely to happen.  I think the old proud dad is pretty close on SS qualifiers, but he is still crazy picking Arney over Johnson.  I'm going to call it a little closer 29-27 Castle sectional.  Obviously, I like Johnson beating Arney and I think Bassmeier will qualify at 182 out of Central.

 

Should be interesting. 

Nevertheless, come on Saturday

[Jon H]

29-27 in favor of the Castle Sectional

 

 

[BlueBolt1]

Castle holds the edge here for total Qualifiers.  Jon H is pretty well on for what I see for Champions.

 

Screwing with the Sectionals really messed with the Regional Balance, and possibly the Semi-State pairings as a matter of course.  Sometimes we have to look at the science and not just the immediate wants of a program or two to strengthen ALL of the wrestlers.

 

But whatever, EVERYONE will have to wrestle their best to make it through and setup Semi-State as positively as possible.

 

 

 

[hook and half]

Castle holds the edge here for total Qualifiers.   Jon H is pretty well on for what I see for Champions.

 

Screwing with the Sectionals really messed with the Regional Balance, and possibly the Semi-State pairings as a matter of course.  Sometimes we have to look at the science and not just the immediate wants of a program or two to strengthen ALL of the wrestlers.

 

But whatever, EVERYONE will have to wrestle their best to make it through and setup Semi-State as positively as possible.

 

 

 

 

i don't understand your point.  it only upset the balance in that it seems like the two sectionals are of somewhat equal strength, rather than one being much stronger than the other.

[1prouddad]

Looks like Central took it with a 30-26 margin

[MatChick76]

SSQ by Sectional:

 

Central 30

Castle 26

 

Castle = 9 Champs

Central = 5 Champs

 

There were a few weight classes I thought could sweep either way, but no weight class was a sweep by either Sectional.

 

[BlueBolt1]

i don't understand your point.  it only upset the balance in that it seems like the two sectionals are of somewhat equal strength, rather than one being much stronger than the other.

 

 

It's simple actually.  Look at the representation of schools from each sectional in the Championship bracket.  Over all the Castle Sectional was more. Evenly distributed.  MD obviously takes the most into the finals as usual, but ended up with two champions.  Reitz and Heritage Hills with 3 apiece  taking only 3 each. 

 

It's the same argument as always, quantity wins tourneys, but Quality of the wins is what matters in the end.  If things had been left alone the Central Sectional would have had a banner year at Regionals.

 

You can look at it how ever you like.  In the end they kids have to wrestle and winning each match is what is important.  But placement coming into a tourney DOES impact the next weeks tourney.  Do you honestly think it is probably some of the brackets would have look like they did if the sectional alignment had remained the same? 

 

It was a Black and Blue day out there though.  A lot of banged up kids and gutsy performances. 

[pantherfan78]

 

It's simple actually.  Look at the representation of schools from each sectional in the Championship bracket.  Over all the Castle Sectional was more. Evenly distributed.  MD obviously takes the most into the finals as usual, but ended up with two champions.   Reitz and Heritage Hills with 3 apiece  taking only 3 each. 

 

It's the same argument as always, quantity wins tourneys, but Quality of the wins is what matters in the end.  If things had been left alone the Central Sectional would have had a banner year at Regionals.

 

You can look at it how ever you like.  In the end they kids have to wrestle and winning each match is what is important.  But placement coming into a tourney DOES impact the next weeks tourney.  Do you honestly think it is probably some of the brackets would have look like they did if the sectional alignment had remained the same?   

 

It was a Black and Blue day out there though.  A lot of banged up kids and gutsy performances. 

 

Let's just say what everyone has been saying in the stands and in private since this was announced.  A certain program whined and cried about never having a shot at a sectional title as long as Mater Dei was in their sectional.  That's what I have listened to all day from just about every person who cared to comment.  Don't bother replying, I just thought it was important to let what others are saying be known.  Years of tradition and one of the greatest rivalries in the states history, and it's all scrapped because someone decides they can't win. 

[ElectricEye]

Let's just say what everyone has been saying in the stands and in private since this was announced.   A certain program whined and cried about never having a shot at a sectional title as long as Mater Dei was in their sectional.   That's what I have listened to all day from just about every person who cared to comment.   Don't bother replying, I just thought it was important to let what others are saying be known.   Years of tradition and one of the greatest rivalries in the states history, and it's all scrapped because someone decides they can't win. 

 

We have all heard the same things but with the change over year in and year out with programs you never no what you will get.  The top 3 most consistent programs appear to have been Mater Dei, Memorial, and Castle over the past few years as far as I know.  Castle has been down over all but there are signs it has potential coming up.  Memorial had a strong feeder program and mater Dei has a strong team that is young. 

 

Both the Conference and the Regional meets showed that Mater Dei can win by pushing large numbers through to the finals, but the winning each weight class is a chore for them this year. 

 

The larger issue if how many injuries came out of today. 

 

[LiSiHi724]

I don't post often, but when I do it's warranted...

First pantherfan78- change your login as you're obviously not a fan anymore.. If you were you'd know the program well enough to know we voted to stay where we were at and continue to fight it Out for sectional 32 and draw into a weaker sectional opponent( sectional 31)  for regionals. I'm an evansville native, not a reitz grad yet I show more loyalty to the program than you ever thought about. You just make yourself sound silly some times...

 

E-eye- consistency means they don't have down years. Hence MD when was their last "down year? Don't worry ill wait.... Exactly, it's called depth and in our region, MD is top notch every year. And in two years they will be really really good, again. Which is scary to say since they doubled the score of the entire field all day today even in the end... The closest team (reitz oddly enough...) was still over 50 points behind at the end of the mayham.

 

Just thought I'd respond to what has been the so called "buzz" in the stands and has been the topic of "private" conversation.

 

If you're going to comment about a program, get to know it first.

 

Good luck to  all on the ice next week!

Thanks,

Coach Fisher

 

[WrestleMan]

I don't post often, but when I do it's warranted...

First pantherfan78- change your login as you're obviously not a fan anymore.. If you were you'd know the program well enough to know we voted to stay where we were at and continue to fight it Out for sectional 32 and draw into a weaker sectional opponent( sectional 31)  for regionals. I'm an evansville native, not a reitz grad yet I show more loyalty to the program than you ever thought about. You just make yourself sound silly some times...

 

E-eye- consistency means they don't have down years. Hence MD when was their last "down year? Don't worry ill wait.... Exactly, it's called depth and in our region, MD is top notch every year. And in two years they will be really really good, again. Which is scary to say since they doubled the score of the entire field all day today even in the end... The closest team (reitz oddly enough...) was still over 50 points behind at the end of the mayham.

 

Just thought I'd respond to what has been the so called "buzz" in the stands and has been the topic of "private" conversation.

 

If you're going to comment about a program, get to know it first.

 

Good luck to  all on the ice next week!

Thanks,

Coach Fisher

 

 

I'm hoping it doesn't take two years.  Couple of studs coming soon to add to a really young group

[LiSiHi724]

Lol I wanted to give those incoming 8th grade HAMMERS a buffer to get ready for high school, but something tells me those young men won't need it.

[bluegraypanther]

Pantherfan/No Class,

 

I was sitting within 25 feet of the entire MD Section and have several good friends from Mater Dei and a nephew in Mater Dei's feeder program. While talking to them not once did I hear anyone say anything about the new alignment. I also have a nephew by marriage that wrestles for Central and spent several hours in that group. Not one word from their entire section about the new alignment. There is a former Reitz wrestler that helps with the North program and while asking him how he was doing the only thing that didnt come up was the new alignment. And lastly, there is a former feeder league coach from Reitz who has a nephew that wrestles for Memorial. Guess what....while sitting in that section there was not a single word said about the new alignment. . The ONLY thing I can picture is you, bluebolt and electriceye sitting in the upper corner holding your own little miserable conversation about how Reitz moved while everyone else was watching some good wrestling. My point? Wrestling teams in southern Indiana and their members are a giant family of sorts and you are the crazy uncle.

[frigginhurts]

sit in several sections yesterday and not once did the topic of the sectional alignment come up.  obviously it changed things but who cares.  the important thing is there was some great wrestling yesterday.  there will be even better wrestling next week, however, I am not too optimistic about the Castle regional faring too well.  It looks like the Bloomington regional was fairly loaded.    Good luck to everyone coming out of Castle and hope we score some upsets on the ice.

[1gold]

I don't know who our rivals are anymore. Do you cheer for the Reitz wrestler because they are from the Castle sectional.  Hold on a minute ... I can't cheer for a west sider , because that goes against the rivalry part that is engraved in my head.  I agree with some of you on this topic  , but one things for sure, come this Saturday  I will be cheering for every Castle Semi-State qualifier. Good luck this week and wrestle your  A-- off !!!!

[BlueBolt1]

Pantherfan/No Class,

 

I was sitting within 25 feet of the entire MD Section and have several good friends from Mater Dei and a nephew in Mater Dei's feeder program. While talking to them not once did I hear anyone say anything about the new alignment. I also have a nephew by marriage that wrestles for Central and spent several hours in that group. Not one word from their entire section about the new alignment. There is a former Reitz wrestler that helps with the North program and while asking him how he was doing the only thing that didnt come up was the new alignment. And lastly, there is a former feeder league coach from Reitz who has a nephew that wrestles for Memorial. Guess what....while sitting in that section there was not a single word said about the new alignment. . The ONLY thing I can picture is you, bluebolt and electriceye sitting in the upper corner holding your own little miserable conversation about how Reitz moved while everyone else was watching some good wrestling. My point? Wrestling teams in southern Indiana and their members are a giant family of sorts and you are the crazy uncle.

 

Since you drag me into your fantasies, I will just say this.  If you didn't hear anything then it's a great case of either selective hearing or I attentiveness.  The MD fans had quite the chuckle over Reitz bailing, and honestly it was down hill from there. 

 

So let me be clear, in the end you have to make your weight put on your gear, put your foot on the red or green and go on the whistle.  That's all that really matters.  My only concern is that the realignment just flipped the sectionals as far as on the "toughness" scale and may have been better thought out to level to two out and make them BOTH better in the long run. 

 

As for what happens in the Semi State based on sectional pairings, once again it's all up to the kids in the 6 minutes they get.  In a few years the sectionals will. Realign again anyway. 

 

 

[hook and half]

Since you drag me into your fantasies, I will just say this.  If you didn't hear anything then it's a great case of either selective hearing or I attentiveness.  The MD fans had quite the chuckle over Reitz bailing, and honestly it was down hill from there. 

 

So let me be clear, in the end you have to make your weight put on your gear, put your foot on the red or green and go on the whistle.  That's all that really matters.  My only concern is that the realignment just flipped the sectionals as far as on the "toughness" scale and may have been better thought out to level to two out and make them BOTH better in the long run. 

 

As for what happens in the Semi State based on sectional pairings, once again it's all up to the kids in the 6 minutes they get.  In a few years the sectionals will. Realign again anyway.

 

Bluebolt, you always amaze and amuse. 

 

As far as "toughness" goes, Central sending 30 ss qualifiers to Castle's 26, makes Central the "tougher" sectional in which to advance. 

 

Castle having 9 champions to Central's 5 makes it the sectional with higher quality at the top.  Based on the final results from the regionals, I beleive that most would agree that the Castle sectional will probably have more high finishers at state.

 

That being said, whoever realigned the sectionals got it right.  In the absences of wrestlebacks at semi-state, sectionals 32 and 31 are much more balanced, helping to ensure that the top kids advance.

 

You may be right about another realignment.  Many big names from the Castle sectional are juniors and seniors, while the Central sectional has a lot of youth infused into surging programs.  You may be looking at a call for a re-balancing in a few years.

 

I do love the "6 minutes they get" comment.  That's one of my favorites.

[BlueBolt1]

Bluebolt, you always amaze and amuse. 

 

As far as "toughness" goes, Central sending 30 ss qualifiers to Castle's 26, makes Central the "tougher" sectional in which to advance. 

 

Castle having 9 champions to Central's 5 makes it the sectional with higher quality at the top.  Based on the final results from the regionals, I beleive that most would agree that the Castle sectional will probably have more high finishers at state.

 

That being said, whoever realigned the sectionals got it right.  In the absences of wrestlebacks at semi-state, sectionals 32 and 31 are much more balanced, helping to ensure that the top kids advance.

 

You may be right about another realignment.  Many big names from the Castle sectional are juniors and seniors, while the Central sectional has a lot of youth infused into surging programs.  You may be looking at a call for a re-balancing in a few years.

 

I do love the "6 minutes they get" comment.  That's one of my favorites.

 

Actually they missed it by a mile, but that is a matter of whose bench you sit behind I guess. 

 

The one comment I have heard since the announcement came out was (this is a direct quote heard repeatedly) "I guess they want Mater Dei to win the sectional year".  The other one - AND THESE ARE NOT MY WORDS - "At least we don't have to listen to a certain coaches whining all the time now".

 

So you tell me...What REALLY drove this realignment? 

 

I agree with whomever posted a while back about how this was all drawn up.  Mt Vernon to Castle?  Tecumsah to Central?  Wood Memorial and Pike Central to Central?  With gas $3.50 a gallon I am pretty sure the parents weren't asked if they want to make those trips weekly.  I know that is a minor thing, but it is a real concern in todays world.

 

The East West split down 41 makes a heck of a lot more sense to me.  North comes to Castle and the Gibson County Schools (Except Wood Memorial, its right above Warrick County) and VL goes to central also. 

 

Castle Sectional would make more sense if it were

North, Memorial, Bosse, Harrison, Castle,  Tec, Boonville, South Spencer, Heritage Hills, Tell City.

 

Central would be:

 

Central, Mater Dei, Reitz, Mt Vernon, North Posey, Gibson Southern, Princeton, VL, Wood Memorial, Pike Central

 

Levels the planning field as much as currently possible, and eliminates the cost to the schools and parents, making it more attractive to the fans BTW.  Also keeps some pretty historic rivalries in place. 

 

BTW...Which team won the Freshman City Tourney this year?  First time ever...including the Team State trips that recently happened...So the pipe is looking more and more full for many programs.

 

The basic difference between you and I is I can see the issue for what it is.  Programs ebb and flow.  MD is the obvious exception to that but if we are being completely honest, they are not as strong as they were 5 years ago.  Would MD's current line up have beaten the teams they had 3 years ago?  They will get all butt hurt about that, but it's true.  And to be fair Reitz, Castle, and a the other traditional powers are down a few notches too. 

 

BUT, and here is the part people will chose to ignore, teams like Central, North, Harrison, and YES Bosse have shown great progress in their own rights.  That is meant ONLY as a compliment to their coaches and kids by the way.

 

Outside the conference, Jasper and Heritage Hills have been pretty darned impressive.  And here is another one that people will scoff at under their breath...Boonville...Good core of kids on each of those teams.  Graduation will hurt them, but that's a part of the ebb and flow of it.  Rebuild and go again.

 

So go ahead and think what you want.  The facts are right in front of you.  Remember, it wasn't all that long ago that certain programs lost year and year out to the same programs.  Now it is much tighter, no matter what the pundits and bleacher rats say.  This year alone (and warm up the excuse band, here it comes from certain quarters) Jasper AND Central beat Reitz this year?  Didn't MD lose a couple of Interstate Duals (and their own tourney for the first time ever)?  I am NOT trying to pick at teams or the kids.  Just trying to show you the facts behind the point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WrestleMan]

Wow!  Could someone please summarize that last post.  How did they miss it by a mile?  Strangely enough it seems as though we got two fairly equal sectionals out of the realignment.  I agree that geographically it seems a little strange, but is that what we are trying to do?  Are we trying to make the shortest drive for everyone involved?  I don't know the answer to that, but it would appear not.  I also can't figure out whose bench would disagree with the realignment.  Would it be Castle because they lost a sectional they had won so many times before?  I can't see Reitz or Memorial complaining.  Reitz finally won a sectional for the first time in 38 years.  I also don't get the quote, "I guess they want MD to win the sectional year."  I assume you meant every year and am not sure why that is even relevant.  MD does win the sectional every year.  37 years in a row in fact.  I really doubt the powers that be looked at southwestern Indiana and thought, "Man, we need to give MD some help.  Let's make their sectional a little weaker, so they don't have so much trouble."  Really man, do you honestly believe that garbage? 

The one thing I do agree on is many area programs are improving.  Central is much improved, as is Jasper and Heritage Hills.  Boonville has a couple of quality kids and Gibson Southern should improve with their new coaches.  So why don't we just let the realignment go?  Who did it hurt other than possibly Castle?  Any time you have change some are going to perceive it as a negative for some and positive for others.  I don't think you can determine that on one years results. 

By the way, I was at the Central sectional and didn't see any coaches whining so they must have all been at Castle.