WaltHarris Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Wrestling is one of the few IHSAA sports classified in the 'INDIVIDUAL' category without multiple disciplines. Boys/Girls Swimming has 12 disciplines over 2 groups (men/women) for a total of 24 disciplines. They are: 200 Yard Medley Relay, 200 Yard Freestyle, 200 Yard Individual Medley, 50 Yard Freestyle, One Meter Diving, 100 Yard Butterfly, 100 Yard Freestyle, 500 Yard Freestyle, 200 Yard Freestyle Relay, 100 Yard Backstroke, 100 Yard Breaststroke, 400 Yard Freestyle Relay. Boys/Girls Tennis has 5 disciplines over 2 groups for a total of 10 disciplines. They are: #1 Singles, #2 Singles, #3 Singles, #1 Doubles, #2 Doubles. They also have a both a Team State tournament where all 5 disciplines compete and an Individual State for just singles and doubles. Boys/Girls Track has 16 disciplines over 2 groups for a total of 32 disciplines. They are: Pole Vault, Long Jump, Discus, High Jump, Shot Put, 3200 Relay, 100 Dash, 110 High Hurdle, 200 Dash, 1600 Run, 400 Relay, 400 Dash, 300 Int. Hurdles, 800 Run, 3200 Run, 1600 Relay. Girls Gymnastics has 5 disciplines. They are: All-Around, Vault, Uneven Bars, Balance Beam, Floor Exercise. Golf and Cross Country would seem to be the only other individual sports with a single discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltHarris Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 Trent McCormick has a nice article in Unite about the struggles of getting kids to wrestle FS/GR. He also lays out a real nice series of reasons regarding the benefits of FS/GR. It was really quite well written and logical. There are many good men in the IHSWCA who are passionate about FS/GR. I would suggest that it is time for the IHSWCA to approach the IHSAA and request we have 3 disciplines of FK/FS/GR in Indiana High School wrestling. The majority of our peer category ?Individual? sports do. In fact, 3 disciplines would be fewer than any of them above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 could one make the argument that the weight classes would suffice as a discipline in this instance? ...... the weight classes does seperate the individuals in the sport.. and each weight class does have a winner.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltHarris Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 could one make the argument that the weight classes would suffice as a discipline in this instance? ...... the weight classes does seperate the individuals in the sport.. and each weight class does have a winner.... I would disagree. The 100 dash is quite a different discipline from the High Jump. The One Meter Diving and 100 Yard Butterfly disciplines are drastically different. A kid wrestling 106 and a kid wrestling 152 are performing the exact same discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 A track athlete can win a state title in the 100, 200 and long jump. A wrestler cannot win a state title at 132lbs and 145lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachbum21 Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 A track athlete can win a state title in the 100, 200 and long jump. A wrestler cannot win a state title at 132lbs and 145lbs. ...on the other hand a tennis player cannot win a state title in the #1, singles and the #2 singles and #3 singles. Only one. I am not sure since I don't follow it but I don't think individuals can participate in the doubles either...can they? and the IHSAA counts them as disciplines.... just to muddy the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I would disagree. The 100 dash is quite a different discipline from the High Jump. The One Meter Diving and 100 Yard Butterfly disciplines are drastically different. A kid wrestling 106 and a kid wrestling 152 are performing the exact same discipline. track is two seperate disciplines within the title of Track and Field... also Swimming and Diving... maybe we could get classified as Folkstyle and Freestyle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltHarris Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 I would like to suggest that just as a young person is allowed to earn 1st place in 100 Backstroke & 100 Breaststroke in swimming, or earn 1st place in Balance Beam & Floor Exercise in gymnastics, that a young person participating in IHSAA wrestling should also be allowed to earn 1st place in FK and FS and GR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 While I do like the premise of having 3 disciplines, I do think this may be unrealistic. For starters, how many coaches are actually interested in the FS/GR styles? Since the rule changes, FS/GR participation has dropped. If wrestling participation has dropped, I think it's only safe to assume that FS/GR coaching participation has dropped as well. On top of that, from what I've gathered, we have a ton of lay coaches just for folkstyle. Now we want these coaches to teach FS/GR, styles they may not be interested in teaching anyway? Also, how would we incorporate the other 2 styles into the season? How would duals and super duals be ran? What about tournaments during the season? Running a 1-style tournament is a marathon of an event right now (ex: Connersville, Al Smith). How would the IHSAA go about running the post-season? We can't even get wrestlebacks because they said that would add time to the events. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the international styles. If we could somehow pull off a 3-style season, that would be interesting. However, I think those styles are tailored to the more serious wrestlers who want to expand their abilities. Also, do we really want to be having a 3-style season when every other state would still be in a folkstyle season? Should we want our wrestling season to be more in line with every other states' wrestling season? or should we want to be treated the same as the other individual sports in Indiana? Just some of my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltHarris Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 track is two seperate disciplines within the title of Track and Field... also Swimming and Diving... maybe we could get classified as Folkstyle and Freestyle... AJ, I would be fine with two disciplines of FK & FS. That would be a significant improvement. I also believes it helps alleviate some the "no classes in individual sports" pressure many feel at the present time. Adding freestyle as a discipline to our present IHSAA sponsored folkstyle would provide more opportunities for 1st place without anyone complaining, validly or invalidly, that the talent pool was watered down by a class structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltHarris Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 While I do like the premise of having 3 disciplines, I do think this may be unrealistic. For starters, how many coaches are actually interested in the FS/GR styles? Since the rule changes, FS/GR participation has dropped. If wrestling participation has dropped, I think it's only safe to assume that FS/GR coaching participation has dropped as well. On top of that, from what I've gathered, we have a ton of lay coaches just for folkstyle. Now we want these coaches to teach FS/GR, styles they may not be interested in teaching anyway? Reasonable people can disagree about this. But I would suggest that FS/GR participation has dropped not because of the rule changes, but more because of there are so many FK tournaments available from ISWA/NUWAY/AAU outside the high school season. Water will always drain to the lowest point... most young people only know what they were taught in middle school and that is FK, so they stick to FK outside the season. Also, how would we incorporate the other 2 styles into the season? How would duals and super duals be ran? What about tournaments during the season? Running a 1-style tournament is a marathon of an event right now (ex: Connersville, Al Smith). How would the IHSAA go about running the post-season? We can't even get wrestlebacks because they said that would add time to the events. There are many options. So many it would be challenging to list here. But in theory, back when I was coaching we had the 16 point system for your regular season dual/tournament scheudle. You could make it so that certain amount of points must be utilized on FK (maybe 6), a certain amount on FS (maybe 6), and an AD/coach would have a few points they could use on either FK or FS (maybe 4). Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the international styles. If we could somehow pull off a 3-style season, that would be interesting. However, I think those styles are tailored to the more serious wrestlers who want to expand their abilities. Also, do we really want to be having a 3-style season when every other state would still be in a folkstyle season? Great statement! I am so glad you said this. My statement would this: How about Indiana becomes the trend setter in wrestling for once! How about we take a measured risk! Look at how many Indiana young people will wrestle at the Olympic Team Trials in Iowa this weekend. We could improve on that and many other things if we do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Reasonable people can disagree about this. But I would suggest that FS/GR participation has dropped not because of the rule changes, but more because of there are so many FK tournaments available from ISWA/NUWAY/AAU outside the high school season. Water will always drain to the lowest point... most young people only know what they were taught in middle school and that is FK, so they stick to FK outside the season. I can't dispute this. There are many options. So many it would be challenging to list here. But in theory, back when I was coaching we had the 16 point system for your regular season dual/tournament scheudle. You could make it so that certain amount of points must be utilized on FK (maybe 6), a certain amount on FS (maybe 6), and an AD/coach would have a few points they could use on either FK or FS (maybe 4). We are under a 18 point system now. So let's say we have 9 points set aside for FK, and 9 points for FS. I'm sure alot of coaches have a schedule that they've made and don't want to tangent away from drastically. This is something that would be inevitable under this system that you've proposed. Coaches are going to have to find schools to wrestle, then find out what style they want to wrestle, then find an open date to set up a match. This is just for a single dual. What about for super duals like Bellmont's? Would the entire super dual be wrestled one style? Several of those teams might want to (or need to) wrestle FS, so they'll bow out of that. Now replacement teams need to be found for those events. For tournaments, especially for those around the holidays, how would these be effected? Let's assume they all are FK tournaments (which may not be the case). There'll probably be many currents schools that will need to drop out because they've exhausted their FK points at various other parts of the season. So replacement teams will be needed for these events. This system would be asking for major overhauls for regular season schedules, nevermind the post-season. Great statement! I am so glad you said this. My statement would this: How about Indiana becomes the trend setter in wrestling for once! How about we take a measured risk! Look at how many Indiana young people will wrestle at the Olympic Team Trials in Iowa this weekend. We could improve on that and many other things if we do this. I'm all for Indiana being a trend setter, however the collegiate season is also a single folkstyle season. I'd think that states would be more inclined to keep their seasons closer to the format of the NCAA's than of some random midwestern state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewrestlingdude Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Fifteen weight classes: Draw at the beginning of dual meet: Five wrestle folk, five wrestle free and five wrestle Greco. We could also include 8-10 weight classes for girls do the same draw and five wrestle folk, and the other five wrestle free. 25 kids total per school. Now that would be innovative!!!! Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grecoref Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Fifteen weight classes: Draw at the beginning of dual meet: Five wrestle folk, five wrestle free and five wrestle Greco. We could also include 8-10 weight classes for girls do the same draw and five wrestle folk, and the other five wrestle free. 25 kids total per school. Now that would be innovative!!!! Dude And my cell phone and email would explode with everyone asking for rules interpretations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 And my cell phone and email would explode with everyone asking for rules interpretations. We all know the IHSAA wouldn't interpret it the right way, so yeah you would probably get a few calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewrestlingdude Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 You could charge a consulting fee and make some extra cash!!! Another innovative idea by the ole duder!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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