812Fan Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I have to say that this was by far the worst run tournament I have yet to go to! We were bounced from gym to gym, no one knew the match numbers, awards were only given down to sixth place, Why would you not award a wrestler that placed in a "national" event? The official were so biased toward the Red Cobra wrestlers it was sickening! After seeing the fit that Chad Red threw at the end of the tourney I am not surprised. To each his own but I for one will never go back to that tournament! Truly a lack of class all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakes-dad Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Agreed. Here's what their saying in Illinois so far: http://www.illinoismatmen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42220 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosierdad Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Have to agree 100% we had a very similar experience. Won't be going back in the future here either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I had a look at some of the brackets and weights last night. We have seen two of the kids this year elsewhere that were 7-8 heavier than the group they were in at Indy Nationals. And this was at events with night before weigh-in so I'm sure they were at their lowest weight when we saw them, and that was in Jan. one of them had deleted events out of their trackwrestling profile that showed the event that I saw them at weighing 7# more than the weight they were at yesterday. Looking at another profile on trackwrestling for another wrestler the same group, this wrestlers had not been entered under 112# yet this year but was in a group 7# under that weight yesterday. I only took time to check 4-5 wrestlers and 3 of them were at a weight they didn't belong. And of course all were from out of state. If you give some the opportunity to cheat they will. All it does is create animosity among the other wrestlers and parents. This sport is emotional enough as it is. This is the perfect example of why faxed weigh-ins don't work for a Nationally billed events. This is the only event in the US with Dominator Belt points available that allows faxed weigh-ins. Very simply a big mistake. $50 for weight challenge???? OMG! Who's idea was that? Who's gonna throw away $50 for a weight challenge? Can I use Monopoly Money? WOW!!! Good way to make sure you don't get any challenges. Should have just made it $500. As for the comments about Chad Red, he is an emotional guy, no question. He's also an excellent coach that does a lot of work for a lot of kids. And in 6 years I've never known him to be anything other than good for the sport. So don't let a bad moment make him too much of a bad guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchool787 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Seeding was a joke. Many state champs in same side of bracket, while other side of bracket was very weak. I believe there was much foulplay with kids' actual weights and weigh-ins were so laid back that they didn't even write the weight on the kid's arm. $50 to protest/appeal a match and even though kids were found overweight up to 10lbs, I was told they would not overturn the appeals. I saw one kid being "hid" from public view until he actually wrestled, because he was clearly over the weight limit, but somehow got past the lack weigh-in official. Red Cobra seemed to be in cahoots with the team in question of cheating on weight also. Smelled like foul play all the way around! Bad deal for the kids that worked their $$ses off and got screwed by these things!!! I'll never go back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knowgangs Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 We have traveled to many nationals tournaments. Coming from Wisconsin we were warned this tournament was poorly organized, but as we saw some top notch kids registering we thought we would try it out. I got to say this was the worst tournament we ever been to. Wrestling was to start at 1 and my son had a bye. He didn't wrestle first match until 5:30 and the second match until 9:30. We finally left just after 11 pm. I'm no rocket scientist but why would someone try to run over 300 kids on 6 full mats for 4 minute periods and think the tournament will move along? Eventually they decided to open up another gym with four more mats, problem was now instead of being at the same mat all day as the tournament promised, you did know know what mat you were supposed to be on. They were wrestling part of a bracket in one gym and part in the other...we've been to other tournaments that have operated like this...but never one that didn't provide information as to where your match would be. If you tried to follow along on track wrestling that too was off. I saw one match get a FF because one kid was in the other gym where he was supposed to be at yet they moved the match without making an announcement. Despite the poor organization, table workers were impatient and lacked direction and leadership. Towards the end of the day many wrestlers just left because of the extreme poor organization--these were kids that would have placed had they stayed. Many people just walked out! You can call it a national tournament, but I would suspect much of the good competition won't be returning. Even if Indy Nationals promised to make changes for next year's event I still don't think we will ever return. I can never recommend this tournament to my worst enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRYDOG Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 When I 'm find out today that King Select Club from ILL, kids did not have weigh-in and the Head of Indy National Tournament just took the coaches word that the weights on the his boys were good,well that is wrong.Your flier said every kid had to weigh-in on- site and on Saturday. My son lost (2 place) to a kid from that club and my wife over heard his mom say that her boys was 150lb which was 10lb over the weight limit. I'm not going to pay $50.00 to challenge weight of a kid for a my son to get a $10.00 trophy. Then my second boy in Session II (start at 1:30 p.m.) did have his first match until 5:30 p.m. and is last match until 9:45 p.m.. Not enough mats for all the boys. My two boys will not be back ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr456 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Frydog- 150 pounds? What division are you referring to? I don't see a King Select wrestler registered at any weigh class above 120 in any division. You sure you have your facts straight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosoccermomhere Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I will not comment on the tournament itself but I can not believe that someone actually came on this message board and called children "white trash ". I don't care if you have an opinion about the tournament but to call children names is unacceptable. I believe these posts and posters need to be removed from this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiralride Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I second that........I had several kids from our club at the tournament yesterday and not much positive to say. I see no reason to trash Chad or kids on this board.....Heck if you read the posts from Illinois someone even called out one of our Indiana boys by first and last name and that is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE in my opinion. The kids were doing what there coaches and parents told them to do and let's not forget that. For the weight challenge, one of my dad's challenged a weight and the wrestler was 4.8 lbs over. He payed the $50.00 bucks. He then approached Chad with his concerns about the tournament and Chad refunded his $50 dollar challenge money.....I hope everybody is seeing why it is so critical to weigh the wrestlers in the morning of the tournament. Thank God ISWA does it right and I hope they continue to do it right. Parents and coaches worried about kids weight classes in the morning session.....BOO HOO on you. Let them wrestle what they weigh!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellrs Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Thank you to the moderator for deleting that innapropriate post. The only comment tbat I have on this thread is that the tournament director stated that there will be no satellite weigh ins next year. It will likely be all pre-bracketed, declared weights with weigh ins before each session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosierdad Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Agree! No need to trash, everyone there knows how horrible it was, just don't go back and no need to ever worry about it again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosierdad Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 It is a shame though that we had to spend so much money and the kids had to get such high hopes only to have such a huge disappointment! Not cool, not cool at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDfan Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Chad and Mark, A couple pieces of constructive criticism, all pertaining to the small gym: 1. The big screens in the small gym weren't very visible. You had to almost walk onto the mat to see the match number. 2. The mats in the small gym didn't appear to be numbered. Maybe I just missed this. 3. We knew that when our division got moved to the small gym that we'd be skipping match numbers. We were smart enough to figure that out. What we couldn't determine was which numbers were being skipped. This meant that we had no idea how long we would be waiting. 4. My son wrestled, then had about 10 matches to wait for his next match. All of a sudden, they were calling us back to the mat less than 5 minutes after his match. Is it protocol for kids to wrestle again so quick after a match? If it's not, could the website track the end of a wrestler's match and not allow his match to come up right away? 5. We only heard them calling for him because of someone knowing us. There was no loud speaker in that gym. I'm not sure if it's possible to link the gym speakers so that there is still a central voice coming across. 6. I think you're too tolerant of some of the "coaches" that were doing what they were doing. Other than that, there were no complaints from us or our teams we were with that I know of. (Ben Davis and Indy West) We appreciated that the wrestling for us was non-stop on our mat, even in the small gym. Oh, I'm not sure what the awards were for 6th place, but we neglected to come get it. Let me know how I can get this. 812fan, "I had the utmost respect for the Ill. teams, very decent coaches and wrestlers. You did your state proud! I'm ashamed of most of the Indiana teams." According to trackwrestling, there were 200+ teams in attendance yesterday, a good portion of these likely being Indiana teams. Can you tell us how you were able to determine which of those were Indiana teams and then describe your horrible experiences with them? You said "most" Indiana teams so you should easily be able to provide at least 100 examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
812Fan Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 I will not comment on the tournament itself but I can not believe that someone actually came on this message board and called children "white trash ". I don't care if you have an opinion about the tournament but to call children names is unacceptable. I believe these posts and posters need to be removed from this board. I believe you should respond to things that are your business and stay out of things which are not! Did someone appoint a forum guard? If I singled out anyone in a comment I must have missed that because I do not believe I did. I stand by what I said and I see the moderators must find censorship quite a rewarding thing when it appeases you huh? If you people took the time to work on the honor system and horrible tournaments as much like to correct your loyal subjects here maybe we wouldn't have a "NATIONAL" tournament of such low standards and ran so poorly! Nor do I care if you have an opinion about my comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
812Fan Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 The only comment tbat I have on this thread is that the tournament director stated that there will be no satellite weigh ins next year. It will likely be all pre-bracketed, declared weights with weigh ins before each session. Wow, guess you lose enough business and p*** off enough people things may change. Might be different if this was the 1st year this happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
812Fan Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 812fan, "I had the utmost respect for the Ill. teams, very decent coaches and wrestlers. You did your state proud! I'm ashamed of most of the Indiana teams." According to trackwrestling, there were 200+ teams in attendance yesterday, a good portion of these likely being Indiana teams. Can you tell us how you were able to determine which of those were Indiana teams and then describe your horrible experiences with them? You said "most" Indiana teams so you should easily be able to provide at least 100 examples. Are you for real? Wow! If you took offense and thought it pertained to you then maybe it did! If you have no reason to feel you or your team could have possibly offended anyone then why would you ask that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDfan Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Are you for real? Wow! If you took offense and thought it pertained to you then maybe it did! If you have no reason to feel you or your team could have possibly offended anyone then why would you ask that? Why would I have to be offended to ask how you determined which were the Indiana teams and how "most" of them behaved less than with class? I know there were no issues with our team, who is from Indiana. I'm just wondering about the rest of the Indiana teams, which I would assume were 2/3 of the total number of teams there. That makes it around 130 Indiana teams there. If "most" of them acted in a some negative way, it should be easy for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
812Fan Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Why would I have to be offended to ask how you determined which were the Indiana teams and how "most" of them behaved less than with class? Oh please! Just out of common courtesy, I determined it by the ones I came in contact with! I apologize to 120 per say teams that I did not have direct contact with. Happy Mr. Rogers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
812Fan Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Why would I have to be offended to ask how you determined which were the Indiana teams and how "most" of them behaved less than with class? I assume your experience was 100% different. Great experience, great tourney huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltHarris Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I don't know where to start with Indy Nationals. Chad Red is a very nice guy. I can say that from meeting him once and know Mr. Red has strong, positive reputation in Indiana. I know he helps a lot of kids. But wow that was the worst run tournament I have ever taken my grandson and kids from our club to. I will never ever go again!!! The 1pm session didn't start on until 2:35pm on one of the mats because the morning session was still on going. Some might also say it was false advertising to state "we are using two gyms." Actually we used the main gym most of the day. The alternative gym was used for part of the morning; then they rolled up the mats and had A BASKETBALL CLINIC FOR FOR 3 HOURS; then they roll the mats back out again. That was simply unacceptable. Several officials were excellent. But several were perhaps the worst I've seen in the past two decades. I watched one match were a young man from another club scored 7 consecutive points in the 3rd period (3NF, 2NF, 2NF) and should have won the match 10-5. But the official became confused, signaled the wrong color for the ALL 7 points. Then the official refused to the correct the score and awarded the win to the actual losing wrestler. How the heck does an official forget that one kid was on his back the entire 3rd period and that kid was the one who actually lost. I officiate and know how tough it can be. But there were several awful officials who cannot have ever looked at a rulebook. Next year, don't false advertise in on the web for Indy Nationals by saying "Several of Indiana's best officials attend." BBBBBBBBSSSSSSSSS! Then we had opponents who 'magically' appeared in multiple weight classes. Registration on trackwrestling closed on Friday. In one example for a child from our club, their were 6 wrestlers in his weight class listed all day on Friday & Saturday. Yet, when he wrestled on Sunday their were 9 wrestlers in his weight. This happened to 5 different kids from our club. Those opponent kids never displayed in trackwrestling on the Matrix or Wrestler List. Moreover, I know for a fact that none of these kids were at the weight class above or below his in trackwrestling. What kind of funny business was going on???? Was someone pairing at the tournament holding back registrations until they could find the best situation for kids from their club? This tournament was a poster child for the ISWA to get more involved with the running of any tournament they authorize. Other states would never allow this to happen, but in Indiana we just accept disaster after disaster after disaster when it comes to running such tournaments. The ISWA can no longer be asleep at the switch when it comes to the operation of any local tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
812Fan Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Several officials were excellent. But several were perhaps the worst I've seen in the past two decades. I watched one match were a young man from another club scored 7 consecutive points in the 3rd period (3NF, 2NF, 2NF) and should have won the match 10-5. But the official became confused, signaled the wrong color for the ALL 7 points. Then the official refused to the correct the score and awarded the win to the actual losing wrestler. How the heck does an official forget that one kid was on his back the entire 3rd period and that kid was the one who actually lost. I officiate and know how tough it can be. But there were several awful officials who cannot have ever looked at a rulebook. Next year, don't false advertise in on the web for Indy Nationals by saying "Several of Indiana's best officials attend." BBBBBBBBSSSSSSSSS! I bet that ref was in his 70's gray hair, and the winning kid was probably from Red Cobra Wrestling! Hmmmmmm....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosierdad Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Ohhh... I know that ref, he cost us a match! Horrible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infolady Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Just to set the record straight........This tournament is part of the USA Wrestling Dominator Series and it is scheduled directly through the USA Wrestling National Office. The ISWA does not authorize this event and has no say in how it is conducted. You should direct your complaints to the USA Wrestling national office. They are the ones who need to be aware of the changes that need to be made. I don't know where to start with Indy Nationals. Chad Red is a very nice guy. I can say that from meeting him once and know Mr. Red has strong, positive reputation in Indiana. I know he helps a lot of kids. But wow that was the worst run tournament I have ever taken my grandson and kids from our club to. I will never ever go again!!! The 1pm session didn't start on until 2:35pm on one of the mats because the morning session was still on going. Some might also say it was false advertising to state "we are using two gyms." Actually we used the main gym most of the day. The alternative gym was used for part of the morning; then they rolled up the mats and had A BASKETBALL CLINIC FOR FOR 3 HOURS; then they roll the mats back out again. That was simply unacceptable. Several officials were excellent. But several were perhaps the worst I've seen in the past two decades. I watched one match were a young man from another club scored 7 consecutive points in the 3rd period (3NF, 2NF, 2NF) and should have won the match 10-5. But the official became confused, signaled the wrong color for the ALL 7 points. Then the official refused to the correct the score and awarded the win to the actual losing wrestler. How the heck does an official forget that one kid was on his back the entire 3rd period and that kid was the one who actually lost. I officiate and know how tough it can be. But there were several awful officials who cannot have ever looked at a rulebook. Next year, don't false advertise in on the web for Indy Nationals by saying "Several of Indiana's best officials attend." BBBBBBBBSSSSSSSSS! Then we had opponents who 'magically' appeared in multiple weight classes. Registration on trackwrestling closed on Friday. In one example for a child from our club, their were 6 wrestlers in his weight class listed all day on Friday & Saturday. Yet, when he wrestled on Sunday their were 9 wrestlers in his weight. This happened to 5 different kids from our club. Those opponent kids never displayed in trackwrestling on the Matrix or Wrestler List. Moreover, I know for a fact that none of these kids were at the weight class above or below his in trackwrestling. What kind of funny business was going on???? Was someone pairing at the tournament holding back registrations until they could find the best situation for kids from their club? This tournament was a poster child for the ISWA to get more involved with the running of any tournament they authorize. Other states would never allow this to happen, but in Indiana we just accept disaster after disaster after disaster when it comes to running such tournaments. The ISWA can no longer be asleep at the switch when it comes to the operation of any local tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr456 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I assume your experience was 100% different. Great experience, great tourney huh? I actually did not have a bad experience. Our mat ran smooth all day and when we were moved to another mat, I listened to the announcements and knew where we were moved to and when he was up. My wrestler got 1st though, not 7th. Maybe that has something to do with the different perspectives. Do you think your kid got screwed in both of his losses or just the one with the Red Cobra kid? I am pretty sure that I saw quite a few Red Cobra kids take losses too. Many comments made may be valid but there is a point when you just sound whiny and people stop caring about what you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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