How to move up in Class for Team Duals State Finals (by MIDNIGHT TONIGHT!!)

[Jake Riesen]

Yeah that is a distinct possibility, but it would be a rarity for that to happen.  Adam Central and South Adamshave some really nice squads right now, but they are not near the top of the 2a heap.  Not saying that will never be the case, but going at Matre Dei would still be their best bet most years.  So I will lay off the recruiting thing, but can we all be straight up and tell it like it is for a second.  Matre Dei does have a distinct advantage over the other smaller schools.  I would even go furthur and say they have a distinct advantage over most of the 2 A schools.  They haven't won a title in a few years so I am completly fine with whatever class they go.  Year in and year out they have talent above all of the 1a squads though.  It will be interesting to see what they do, I am guessing 1A because of their past, but who know I could be wrong.

[Big Hawaiian]

I am sorry had to grab something to eat, but I can tell you one thing if you took all of Matre Dei's coaches and equipment and staff and moved them to anywhere else in the state they would not be near as dominate.  South Adams and Adam Central are the top of the 1 a chart and I can bet you there practices are not much different then anything Matre Dei is doing yet they can not compete with Matre Dei why is that?  Maybe because Matre Dei fields an allstar team of local talent every year.  Maybe you do not recruit in the sense of going up and telling parents they should get their kids enrolled, but it is obvious that Matre Dei hand picks their talent, and since they pick wrestlers from all over the area isn't that an unfair advantage?  If you say you don't do that then I am going back to my statistical arguement, because wrestling is not a sport where teams reinvent the wheel.  

 

With open enrollment that is now throughout our state why is recruiting a issue? Kids and famlies are now finding the best fit for them and serching out schools and programs as much as the under handed recruiting that I think is currently being claimed, so in todays world this is a non issue in my opinion! I think any private school in the past could by definition have been given a recruiting lable. As they have to advertise many ways to come up with their students, because of a lack of defined student base they had to find their students and cater to something sports, college prep, etc... to appeal to prospective students!!JMO 8)

[thewrestlingdude]

tippytipton,

 

can you flip a coin and get heads 9 x in a row statistically speaking?  

 

I'll say this, I dont think Mater Dei recruits, if in fact they do have kids that come to their school that are out of district, the kid and his family probably recruited Mater Dei, you have it backwards, its like Bunny she kidnapped herself, man.  Good program, good coaching winning tradition, great academics and open enrollment.  The school attracts winners and hard working families willing to sacrifice year in and year out.  

 

Now that you have had time to respond and think about my question remember, winning a state championship in wrestling both individually and as a team has no place in the laws of statistics.  If that were the case at some point every school would have a state champion and I know there are dozens of schools that dont.  

 

Dude

[812Fan]

Let me ask this? Has any other school in Indiana won that many State championships in a row for wrestling?

[Jake Riesen]

I think it is never going to be a non issue.  That being said I think it is less of an issue in the bigger divisions.  Smaller schools typically do not get a huge surge in recruiting.  So when you have catholic schools are under the label of a small school and have the ability to hand pick talent it is a lot different then when a bigger catholic school is able to hand pick atheletes.  Thats the same reason catholic schools are typically more dominate in the lower divisions in football.  Sure they win a lot in the bigger divisions, but it is a lot closer because hand picking to compete against big schools is a lot different hen hand picking against smaller schools.  

 

the wrestling dude,  

My past two or three post have been about hand picking talent.  In my opinion that is still a distinct advantage that smaller schools do not have so I will stick by my statistics.  IF all things are the same as far as enrollment levels Matre Dei would not be near as dominate.  If they had a regular district then they would not have near the success.  Yes they would be good because they do the right things, but no they would not have won 9 championships in a row with 250 boys.  They probably wouldn't have one any.  

[MatChick76]

 

From an Alumni in the Evansville courier press.

 

I have to agree with this guy!

 

I have no idea where this came from, but this is a bald-faced lie - a person pretending to be an MD Alum to stir the pot.  My family has gone to MD back to my grandparents (and, I suspect even before that had MD been around) - and several of my family members excelled in athletics at MD - including boasting the first ever state champion - and not a one of them got any kind of financial incentive to attend MD.  I have never even heard of one single kid who has been given any type of incentive to attend MD -I'm not even sure who they would have been.  Aside from Blake Maurer, who had a family connection to MD from long ago, I can't even think of a single kid who "dominated" enough to even be thought of as a recruit.  The current Varsity Team:

 

Seng (he's part Macke too), Johnson, Goebel, Pierre, Schroeder, Lannert, Bassemier, Folz, Parkinson, Schneider (Mom's a Dezember), Brandenstein (Momma's a Weinzapfel), Maurer, Collins, Wright (Boots!!!)....

 

I am so sick of the recruiting talk - nothing but sour grapes.  If Schapker was healthy, Reitz's Wrestling Team would have two former MD wrestlers in their lineup this year, but you don't hear us screaming Recruiting or any foul play.  So sick and tired of all the made up drama and b.s.

[812Fan]

http://www.courierpress.com/comments/list/news/stories/298235/2/

 

Talk to the paper, That's a direct quote. Hmmm let's see, I'm going to give a few kids who I recruited financial assistance to wrestle for us. So do I a.) tell all the old school families about it so they can be extremely pissed that they're paying and these kids aren't. or b.) Just keep it to ourselves to prevent any infuriated alumni. Wow I'm with you Matchick, that couldn't possibly be going on, if it was they would surely have disclosed that to all you tuition paying families.  ;D

[Jake Riesen]

Sounds like you have had 2 of Reitz best wrestlers.  Not saying you recruited them they probably came to you, but its still a distinct advantage other small schools do not have.  You don't see Adam Central and South Adams getting a ton of Belmont wrestlers coming in and wanting to enroll.  If you do it is more then likely a move in to the district.  

[812Fan]

First off, let me get something clear in my mind here. Where I live (Southern Indiana about 3 hours from Evansville), a kid is free to go to any school in the county he resides in. As for a private school it does not have to be in the same county, and now the state has vouchers for students wanting to attend private school. So that being said, If I had the option to send my son to an academically superior college preparatory school with a 10 time wrestling state championship program (or however many) and the state was going to pay for most of it, why would I not send my son there?  Like I said, I don't like them but their record is outstanding. And if it's the best thing for my son to get into a top college seems they wouldn't need to recruit "anymore" 

[TrojanPride]

its like Bunny she kidnapped herself, man.  

 

Way to work that quote in.

 

And I totally agree with your opinion about MD recruiting.  If you lived nearby and had a potential superstar kid, where would you send them?  Mater Dei!  Are people really getting mad because MD has created a superior product and parents are choosing it for their kids?  Nobody is holding a knife to their throat.  If somebody believes a Catholic education is better for their child (whether it be because of academics, athletics, faith, or ANY other reason), and they are willing to pay money for it (when they've already paid taxes to support the local public school), what is wrong with that?  This is capitalism.

 

Imagine the pressure a MD wrestler has to perform.  Imagine all the young wrestlers dreaming of making varsity there.  Imagine having that kind of support by your school.  Imagine the alumni they probably have giving back and helping with the program.  Statistically, the more times they win state the MORE LIKELY it is that they will win again.  You assume that the advantage they have is unfair, but it is exactly the opposite.  They have EARNED their advantage.

[812Fan]

I think my biggest problem is that we don't have the support of our schools or our community when it comes to wrestling! Are we jealous? You bet your ass we are! To have that kind of program or even a year round wrestling school like a CIA or Regional wrestling academy, or Hoosier Elite here would be phenomenal! Yes they have earned their reputation, I don't think that is in question, I believe what is in question is what was done years ago to get them to where they are now.

[Jake Riesen]

Trajan Pride I respect you for at least being honest that catholic schools have a distinct advantage.  So if you have this advantage why do they not want to move up.  Don't they see that it is unfair for a school of 250 to be able to hand pick who they allow in thier school to wrestle?

[donmel96]

Trajan Pride I respect you for at least being honest that catholic schools have a distinct advantage.  So if you have this advantage why do they not want to move up.  Don't they see that it is unfair for a school of 250 to be able to hand pick who they allow in thier school to wrestle?

 

You should let it go because it does not matter how much effort you put into pushing Mater Dei away from Adams/South Adams or whatever school it is you support the people reading this board can not make the small Catholic school bump up or down.

 

With the recuirtment of wrestlers to Mater Dei do you think they would not go for the Welch twins from Castle over the last four years or the little brother or the little Brown from Castle or Stein from Princeton. I could list others but last year with those additional wrestlers they would of won team state. But instead they enlisted the help of mathmaticians to figure away to beat the odds and decided to take the best wrestlers and breed them with the best female atheletes and come up with their recruits/superhuman teenagers and modifiy them to ensure they have the best in Southern Indiana from 100 LBS to 285 LBS and all this was taking into consideration of the 200-250 kid count.

[812Fan]

Now see that explains everything! LOL! ;D

[boiler10]

The comment form the paper: Get real, an anonymous online post in response to a real article. And you took it serious? BTW---I saw Elvis today.

 

The two Reitz wrestlers that went to Mater Dei transferred to Reitz for legitimate reasons. Both students wrestled in the MD feeder system and went to MD feeder schools (St Joe and Resurrection).

 

I think only two of MD wrestlers do NOT have MD alum as parents. However, both wrestlers attended Catholic West Side Grade Schools as elementary students.

[mdupnorth4]

The reason that MD is where they are now is because back in the late 1960's Coach Joe Gossman was tired of constantly getting beat by bigger and better wrestling schools in the central and northern Indiana areas and decided to DO something about it.  He knew that the only way a small Catholic high school could afford to pay for a good wrestling program was through volunteerism and faith.  He decided to put his efforts into developing the first feeder  wrestling system in Evansville.  He was very adamant about developing wrestling in Southern Indiana.  His motto was always "What is good for MD wrestling is good for Southern Indiana wrestling and whatever is good for Southern Indiana wrestling will be good for ALL Indiana wrestling".  He started raising the bar back then and every MD wrestler and MD coach since then has helped to elevate our sport.  And every other wrestler and coach in Indiana who has set their sight on beating MD is part of that Legacy.   I was there when it started  and am part of  that legacy.  I follow Indiana wrestling and LOVE the way we(Indiana) have evolved into a competitive high school wrestling community.

 

 

                                                                                    WE ARE.......MD

[812Fan]

The comment form the paper: Get real, an anonymous online post in response to a real article. And you took it serious? BTW---I saw Elvis today.

 

Why is it not real? Because you say it isn't? Guess what Oswald was the lone gunman, the government says so, so it has to be the truth! Believe what you want doesn't change things one bit!

[MatChick76]

Sounds like you have had 2 of Reitz best wrestlers.  Not saying you recruited them they probably came to you, but its still a distinct advantage other small schools do not have.  You don't see Adam Central and South Adams getting a ton of Belmont wrestlers coming in and wanting to enroll.  If you do it is more then likely a move in to the district.  

 

Both of the Reitz wrestlers in question went to MD and switched to Reitz for their own personal reasons.  Both attended MD feeder schools.

[MatChick76]

When talking to a former coach from a Catholic school from up north, he was explaining to me how the school he coached at was able to recruit and why a school like MD is not.  Where he coached, his school was not part of the Diocese and did not have a formal feeder system, in fact, according to him, his Parochial school was formed more like a corporation and was run more like a private academy.  His explanation to me was that because of their set-up, they weren't bound to the same rules and regulations that govern other Catholic schools such as MD and Memorial, schools who do have a distinct system of schools that feed directly into them.  I'm still not exactly sure how this all works out, but when he was explaining it to me, the distinction did make some sense, however, I was still  unclear on if those schools without feeder systems were allowed to openly recruit, or if they had boundaries in which they had to operate within.  

 

But honestly, with all of the new programs: voucher, school choice, and recently there was a meeting at Central H.S. (I didn't attend - so if anyone did and knows what came out of it, let me know) about home-schooled students and those attending a charter school (like Signature School here in Evansville) being allowed to participate in athletics at the public schools, I think you're going to see a lot of changes.  In fact, I think it's fair to say, that you could eventually be seeing Public schools becoming "magnets" for certain sports/activities, (i.e. Reitz = Football School, Harrison = Baseball School)...these are JUST EXAMPLES...but if you had a kid who was an awesome football player, and with the school choice program you were able to send him to a football powerhouse (for free - no additional cost or tuition), why wouldn't you? I don't think there is one of us out there that wouldn't want to do the best we could for our child whether it be for football, baseball, band, academics, etc.

 

As the ghosts of baseball past whispered to Kevin Costner..."If you build it, they will come....."

[maligned]

By now, you've most likely seen the posted announcement about the selection procedures for the 2012-13 IHSWCA Classed Duals State Finals event. 

 

A few schools may be interested in moving up in class to be challenged by more difficult competition. 

 

Any school that wants to move up in class is free to move up to any class above them.  For this season, though, the time is very, very short because we will begin calculating points on Saturday.

 

Here is the selection procedures document.  The school classifications are in alphabetical order in the Appendix at the end of the document:

http://indianamat.com/stuff/IHSWCA_Duals_State_Finals_Selection_Procedures.pdf

 

If your school wants to move up in class, you MUST DECLARE your intention BEFORE SATURDAY.  The official DEADLINE is MIDNIGHT FRIDAY NIGHT.

 

Head Coaches from 1A or 2A schools, please email IHSWCA Vice-President Danny Struck at dstruck@gcs.k12.in.us and include the following information:

 

Your school

Your name

Which class you want to be in (moving up, not down, of course)

 

If you decide to move up, you are INELIGIBLE to qualify for your originally assigned class.  You will be calculated for your chosen class only for the NEXT TWO SEASONS until classifications are re-calculated.

 

IF YOU THINK YOUR SCHOOL IS ONE THAT MAY WANT TO MOVE UP, TAKE ACTION!  CALL SOMEONE OR TELL SOMEONE THAT THIS IS POSTED SO THEY CAN READ IT AND MAKE A DECISION!

 

[munges]

Way to try and recapture your thread maligned. Good luck :

[maligned]

Way to try and recapture your thread maligned. Good luck :

 

Ha.   Just want to make sure people don't miss the announcement.  The debate doesn't bother me...it's roughly the 300th incarnation of it since Coach Peck launched his site back in the day.

[indyt]

Reminder that if you move up you must stay up for the two year term until recalculating of class comes onto effect.

[NoGutsNoGlory]

dang, that had to take some time to gather all that.....and type it all!......that's worth a wahoo!

 

 

Purely copy and paste from the good old archives.

http://www.ihsaa.org/b-wrestling_frame.htm

 

[crossfaceKing]

dear ttipton,

You are a complete fool. MD doesnt recruite im sry mater dei is full of hard working dedicated young men and destroy everyone. I have no idea what everyones line ups are next year but put md against anyone and you'll see md on top.

thanks,