MattM Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 So by this example if a school's Varsity Team had only 16 team points they used a year they could sent someone from their Varsity to Al Smith even if the rest of their varsity was competing someplace else that day? Since by that logic the team nor the individual would be going over their 18 point maximum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 So by this example if a school's Varsity Team had only 16 team points they used a year they could sent someone from their Varsity to Al Smith even if the rest of their varsity was competing someplace else that day? Since by that logic the team nor the individual would be going over their 18 point maximum. Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 There is no official "designation" correct? There fore you wouldn't have to designate Al Smith as a JV meet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 If anyone ever wonders why wrestling is treated like a red-headed step child by the IHSAA see this thread. We now have coaches trying to find backdoor ways to do something the IHSAA is against. The way to get the changes we want are not by circumventing the system, but doing things the right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 There is no official "designation" correct? There fore you wouldn't have to designate Al Smith as a JV meet. But you would have to designate 2 other duals or another super dual as part of your "JV" schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 No, no you don't. You don't have fill out a form and send it to the IHSAA that states what is JV and what doesn't. If you Wes Wesley went to Al Smith, then he just wouldn't wrestling in the Afton Quads. Right? Each wrestler is alotted 18 points, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahawkeye Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 OK two questions, First, will the Al Smith Tourny have wildcards or not? Second, If there will be wildcards, would a full invitational in each weight class be in the Al Smith Tourny future? (IE the Midlands) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 If anyone ever wonders why wrestling is treated like a red-headed step child by the IHSAA see this thread. We now have coaches trying to find backdoor ways to do something the IHSAA is against. The way to get the changes we want are not by circumventing the system, but doing things the right way. I think the IHSAA and wrestling world bump heads mostly as a result of them going around there own stated ruled (sometimes at the last minute) and instating their own opinion of how it should be done. If the IHSAA is against the event then they can simply come out with a clearly defined rule about the situation When they try to manipulate already existing rules or just outright ignore them and then point to coaches as breaking the rules or being unethical is where we usually end up with at. If the IHSAA understands the sports and the rules they have outlined for then this case shouldn't be an issue. Either make a rule stating the "wild card" is allowed or not and leave all the other rules manipulations and unethical accusations out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 No, no you don't. You don't have fill out a form and send it to the IHSAA that states what is JV and what doesn't. If you Wes Wesley went to Al Smith, then he just wouldn't wrestling in the Afton Quads. Right? Each wrestler is alotted 18 points, right? I agree with you that it SHOULD be solely about the individual number of scheduling points. The bylaws say each individual or team may schedule 18 points. Penn is able to schedule 30+ points because they designate those over 18 as JV events for them. I am merely giving you Assistant Commissioner Faulkens' and the IHSAA's interpretation of the bylaws as they are written. I am aware there is no form to fill out and I am assuming that the IHSAA has enough faith in ethics of wrestling coaches and ADs to not schedule more than 18 points for their team, whether it be varsity or JV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I think the IHSAA and wrestling world bump heads mostly as a result of them going around there own stated ruled (sometimes at the last minute) and instating their own opinion of how it should be done. If the IHSAA is against the event then they can simply come out with a clearly defined rule about the situation When they try to manipulate already existing rules or just outright ignore them and then point to coaches as breaking the rules or being unethical is where we usually end up with at. If the IHSAA understands the sports and the rules they have outlined for then this case shouldn't be an issue. Either make a rule stating the "wild card" is allowed or not. But there is Bo need to try and manipulate other rules and point fingers at other coaches who have been trying to operate within those rules. They are using the currently stated bylaw saying teams may not schedule more then 18 points. The IHSAA is not saying a school couldn't do it but is saying they would have to drop two other points somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I agree with you that it SHOULD be solely about the individual number of scheduling points. The bylaws say each individual or team may schedule 18 points. Penn is able to schedule 30+ points because they designate those over 18 as JV events for them. I am merely giving you Assistant Commissioner Faulkens' and the IHSAA's interpretation of the bylaws as they are written. I am aware there is no form to fill out and I am assuming that the IHSAA has enough faith in ethics of wrestling coaches and ADs to not schedule more than 18 points for their team, whether it be varsity or JV. So in this interpretation the IHSAA would like the "Varsity 2" teams meets considered JV meets? If so would there individual wins even shiner another schools varsity be considered JV wins. Which would not count towards there varsity record nor against the other individuals varsity record? While this maybe there intent it may need to be more clearly written. Especially since the current by-laws do not limit the number or varsity teams which can compete for your school in any sport. Heck it seems like we constantly need a rules interpretation for the IHSAA rules interpretations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Heck it send like we constantly need a rules interpretation for the IHSAA rules interpretations. While this maybe there intent it may need to be more clearly written. Especially since the current by-laws do not limit the number or varsity teams which can compete for your school in any sport. Their interpretation, even though I don't agree with it, is plenty clear to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 This is a mess.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 It should not be a mess....The IHSAA clearly designates Wrestling as an Individual Sport and therefore each individual should have 18 points (4 must be in duals if the maximum # is used) to use and when those points are used that should be it for them and the regular season. There are some coaches out there trying to skirt the rules by scheduling extra events (labeled JV) and having their kids wrestle more matches than they are legally allowed. They also demonstrate poor ethics when they use matches designated as "JV" in a record to seed a Varsity Tournament such as the Sectional. I do not see a situation where a school has alot of wrestlers, and they form another team, as unethical at all if the wrestlers comply with the 18 possible points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 There are some coaches out there trying to skirt the rules by scheduling extra events (labeled JV) and having their kids wrestle more matches than they are legally allowed. They also demonstrate poor ethics when they use matches designated as "JV" in a record to seed a Varsity Tournament such as the Sectional. I do not see a situation where a school has alot of wrestlers, and they form another team, as unethical at all if the wrestlers comply with the 18 possible points. I agree coach. Get in your 18 points each individual gets (any combination of JV and Varsity) without going over. Don't try to float a JV match record as a varsity accomplishment. Do all the other weight managment stuff correctly on the side (another common issue). If thats accomplished I'm not seeing how anything would be unethical. Though the "wildcard" example is a bit of an extreme circumstance and I can see the IHSAA putting a squash to that because it opens up the door for individuals to move form event to event as they want to instead of showing up with a team to compete. The "i" dotting and the "t" crossing seems to get more involved every year when it comes to how we need to interprete the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 The "i" dotting and the "t" crossing seems to get more involved every year when it comes to how we need to interprete the rules. That is for sure....I remember 30+ years ago when you just coached wrestling. It was kind of fun if I remember it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 That is for sure....I remember 30+ years ago when you just coached wrestling. It was kind of fun if I remember it correctly. Most of us weren't alive or were in diapers 30 years ago! Heck...I think some of us are still in diapers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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