Smaller Schools and Rankings Lets hear from you...

[ENoblewrestling]

Who is going to sponsor these rankings? 

 

To me it looks like the big school coaches want to give us some rankings so all the small school coaches follow them in saving their precious team state.  If the big schools were really concerned about small schools they would have pushed for a classed team tournament way before the whole thing was put on life support.   I like real rankings where you can prove them to be valid or invalid at the end of the year. 

 

What would be the motive?  It used to be to beat Mater Dei, and now that has been done.  Why would they want a one class event still.  If you look at the 3 class classification the only teams I could see them worrying about not being in the big class would be Bellmont, Yorktown, and Mater Dei.  Other than that none of us have an effect on the tournament really.  So why would they care if there were two other smaller division champions?  What do they gain from there being a classed tournament? 

I think it looks like them saying it would be great to have two other champions.  I mean its not like they would feel threatened in someway by there being other champions.  Its not like they are out to get us or something.  I also don't see them wanting to keep the one class tourny alive as a statement that they dont want it to be ever classed.  They want to keep it and then start moving foward.

[Y2CJ41]

Why does it take the threat of team state being discontinued for all these big school coaches to support a classed system?  I have never seen so many high profile coaches be so adamant about classing our state tournament until this year.

[ENoblewrestling]

Why does it take the threat of team state being discontinued for all these big school coaches to support a classed system?  I have never seen so many high profile coaches be so adamant about classing our state tournament until this year.

 

They honestly probably didn't really care.  Now they need unity from all the coaches to keep it on their end.  In order to get the unity they push for it to be classed.  Who cares why they are pushing for it at least they are pushing for it.

[Coach Moss 93]

Man, some of this talk is crazy.  When was the last time you saw Ben Davis at team state.  We will get there.  But it takes hard work and positive attitude.

 

I want whats best for wrestling.  

 

We could host a tournament to find out whos the best.  Division 1 and 2.

 

You want a trophy, ok, lets do that.

 

Stop the negative talk and lets problem solve.

 

This has nothing to do with a big school agenda but whats best for the sport of wrestling.

 

This is why everyone thinks that wrestling coaches cant agree.  Work together.  Problem solve.

 

I always loved the baseball parents when I coached baseball.  They would say things like "Man we didnt hit the ball tonight"  No Sh!t

 

Tell me something I dont know.  Had a Dad tell me one time, "Didnt know if you noticed coach but we are swinging at first strike curve balls..." Good POINT.  Now thats working on the problem.

 

Lets work together...

 

 

[Darrick Snyder]

Y2,

 

Keep it up and I am posting the incriminating photos of you! haha...Listen I understand your frustration...I obviously don't get all of it because I am not a small school coach, but I understand it in general.

 

Why is it a bad thing that we are coming together?  

 

Have I ever personally tried to fight for a classed team state before?  No...Why?  Because I was out of touch with reality and dumb.  I honestly thought almost coaches liked the team state format.  I knew some coaches had issues, but I was mostly clueless.  Once I realized we were not united on team state, I talked to coaches about why they didn't like the current system....I figured it out...that it needed to be classed to be fair.  I'm pretty close with lots of Michigan Coaches and I talked to those coaches about a classed team state....and I have seen it first hand.  Basically, Y2 I saw the light so to speak.  I have always been a huge proponent of team state and thought almost everyone was.  I figured out that the current system is unfair, though.

 

I want to fight to keep team state and get it classed.  As far as ranking three classes, I think this is an important step to show the IHSAA we are united in what we want.  It will also give more recognition.  

 

For what it is worth, you have my word that my intentions are pure and good regarding classing team state.  I am absolutely certain that is the best direction for our sport...and I willing to fight for it this year and the years that come.  

 

These rankings are just a step towards getting a classed team state, which you told me yourself you would be in favor of.  Don't make me release the photos!

 

Darrick Snyder

[KarlHungus]

Y2,

 

Keep it up and I am posting the incriminating photos of you! haha...Listen I understand your frustration...I obviously don't get all of it because I am not a small school coach, but I understand it in general.

 

Why is it a bad thing that we are coming together? 

 

Have I ever personally tried to fight for a classed team state before?  No...Why?  Because I was out of touch with reality and dumb.  I honestly thought almost coaches liked the team state format.  I knew some coaches had issues, but I was mostly clueless.  Once I realized we were not united on team state, I talked to coaches about why they didn't like the current system....I figured it out...that it needed to be classed to be fair.  I'm pretty close with lots of Michigan Coaches and I talked to those coaches about a classed team state....and I have seen it first hand.  Basically, Y2 I saw the light so to speak.  I have always been a huge proponent of team state and thought almost everyone was.  I figured out that the current system is unfair, though.

 

I want to fight to keep team state and get it classed.  As far as ranking three classes, I think this is an important step to show the IHSAA we are united in what we want.  It will also give more recognition. 

 

For what it is worth, you have my word that my intentions are pure and good regarding classing team state.  I am absolutely certain that is the best direction for our sport...and I willing to fight for it this year and the years that come. 

 

These rankings are just a step towards getting a classed team state, which you told me yourself you would be in favor of.  Don't make me release the photos!

 

Darrick Snyder

 

What would the michigan coaches say if you took away their individual class state??

[ENoblewrestling]

What would the michigan coaches say if you took away their individual class state??

 

His post was about classing team state.  Anytime the individual side gets thrown in the team side gets lost in the shuffle.  Cant we all agree that getting a class team state is very important for our sport and fight about indivdual state latter?

[KarlHungus]

Can't a fella ask a question around here?

[Darrick Snyder]

Karl/Chad,

 

I don't want to get side tracked from classing team state, but I am also a very honest person...and never have a problem giving my opinion or answering a question...which is just one of the reasons I'm not the most popular guy around.  My honest answer is the coaches I have talked to from Michigan are unanimously in favor of the classed team state and are very largely in favor of the classed individual state.

 

Snyder

[KarlHungus]

Karl/Chad,

 

I don't want to get side tracked from classing team state, but I am also a very honest person...and never have a problem giving my opinion or answering a question...which is just one of the reasons I'm not the most popular guy around.  My honest answer is the coaches I have talked to from Michigan are unanimously in favor of the classed team state and are very largely in favor of the classed individual state.

 

Snyder

 

thanks

[bharmon01]

I'm not sure how old some of you are, but class wrestling has been proposed to the IHSAA by our association in the past. This began even before basketball was classed. Each time it was shot down. The IHSAA wanting to maybe drop the Team State tournament is nothing new. During the time I was president and vice president each proposal year a member of the Executive Board asked if we would give up the Team Tournament and go back to the old format and maybe get wrestlebacks with it.

It is not up to us if we want class this or class that, it is totally the IHSAA's decision. We could have 100% of all coaches and programs say they want class team or class individual and it wouldn't matter. The bottom line is the IHSAA will want to know : who will host these class events ? (better not interfere with a basketball game)

                                                                                                                                            how will we get the officials for these class events ?

                                                                                                                                            how much will this coast the IHSAA  ?-travel expense, officials, tournament directors, supplies etc.

                                                                                                                                            how profitable will this be for the IHSAA ?

The IHSAA just wants to run a tournament to determine a champion. They will ask wrestling coaches "How many times do you have to lose to be out?"

Don't try to use other sports to compare them - they will have a reason why you can't compare them, but they will compare them when it benefits there point.

Don't use the argument that this guy got upset and the two best are not advancing. They will say "The two best met in the football sectional thats just the way it goes - we just want to determine a champion"

If the IHSAA thinks that class wrestling would be good and profitable for the IHSAA they will class it. They don't care what is good for wrestling.

They will tell us "You wrestling coaches don't know what you want." - they will point to the arguments like this thread as an example. They will say coaches tell them they want class, they want team, they want wrestlebacks, but they can't agree on anything.

Everyone knows I would never be for classing the Individual tournament, thats just my traditional old man view. The point is my view doesn't matter. If the IHSAA wants to class it they will - if they don't they won't. If they want to class the team they will, if they don't they won't.

If you ever get the chance to be on an committee to the IHSAA or be an IHSWCA officer do it. In my younger years I used to get pretty fired up and vocal at the fall and spring clinic business meetings. I got a chance to be on some committees and serve as president and vice-president -what an eye opener on how the IHSAA works.

I just hope everyone can get together and do whats best for Indiana wrestling and our kids - not whats best for my program or how does this benefit me?

I just wanted to let you know class wrestling has been proposed in the past , the sad fact is that it ultimately comes down to what the IHSAA wants.

[KarlHungus]

I'm not sure how old some of you are, but class wrestling has been proposed to the IHSAA by our association in the past.

 

When?  Are there any copies of the proposal out there that would benefit the current association leadership when and if they decide to propose and individual or team class tournament?

 

This began even before basketball was classed. Each time it was shot down. The IHSAA wanting to maybe drop the Team State tournament is nothing new. During the time I was president and vice president each proposal year a member of the Executive Board asked if we would give up the Team Tournament and go back to the old format and maybe get wrestlebacks with it.

 

There is new leadership now so that might give some hope.  Soccer recently classed their tournament, another positive sign.

 

It is not up to us if we want class this or class that, it is totally the IHSAA's decision.

 

So if the coaches have no influence why should we bother trying to save team state?  The IHSAA clearly doesn't want it.  Sounds like we're pissin into the wind.

 

If the IHSAA thinks that class wrestling would be good and profitable for the IHSAA they will class it. They don't care what is good for wrestling.

 

It clearly is highly profitable in states smaller than Indiana.  Is our leadership in contact with those states getting facts and figures?

 

[Galagore]

There aren't very many states with classed team and unclassed individual, are there?

[Y2CJ41]

There aren't very many states with classed team and unclassed individual, are there?

Around one, New Jersey.

[ENoblewrestling]

Around one, New Jersey.

 

Thats a pretty solid state for wrestling too.  Maybe we should copy them.  Hey do you know if Blair wrestles in their state tournament?

[tspray1]

They Don't

[bharmon01]

Yes, to be honest with you if the commissioner or assistant commissioner said " the team tournament needs to go away"  we are probably "pissing in the wind" and their argument will be all the coaches they talk to are against it.

I talked to a number of coaches at the fall clinic and the majority didn't care about the team tournament.

To be honest the only ones who really cared about it are the ones who participated in it. Yes, we were there the last two years but I hate to let the IHSAA take something away that we worked so hard to get. It took us 14 years to get there and we may never go back again, but why let them take it away?

Now if you said class it , it was a different story.

If you want to go for class then here is what you do:

Get your numbers - show your officers that the majority of the coaches in the association want team class or individual class. I would only go after one, not both. If the majority of the association members want to go after team class, then it it is the responsibility, it is the moral obligation of the association officers to go after it. It doesn't matter if you think you can win or not - if the majority of the memberships wants team class then it is your obligation as an officer to propose it - win or lose.  I was an officer and I didn't always agree with everything, but it was my responsibility, my duty to represent our membership. I never cared if I thought we would win or lose, if the majority people who elected me wanted to go after  something then I went after it.

Here is what you need to do:

Show the IHSAA that the majority (90-100%) of the IHSWCA membership is in favor of team class or individual class.

Go after TWO classes to start with.

Show them that we have enough schools willing to host the event.

Show them that we have enough officials to cover the event.

Show them that it will not be a long event. ( they don't want to spent alot of time in the gym)

Show them that this will be profitable to the IHSAA - not that this is good for our kids, they don't care!

The bottom line though is if the IHSAA thinks this is profitable to the IHSAA you will get what you want, but if not then you just pissed in the wind.

BUT if class is what you are after then just keep "pissing in the wind" - I mean KEEP FIGHTING EVEN IF THEY SHOOT YOU DOWN AGAIN AND AGAIN !

If we worried about the IHSAA shooting us down we would still be advancing only the champions and 8 to state.

Make the proposal the majority are in favor of and let the chips fall

.  

[tspray1]

Sue em!