JimtownFather Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 When we were at a JV tourney last year, we struck up a conversation with some Penn parents. They informed us that Penn had 170 kids out for the wrestling team. 170!!!!!! My question is: "In a few years, with those types of numbers, how will anyone in the area be able to compete with the Kingsmen?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachW33 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 That is a ton of kids and if that?s an accurate number I definitely see the gap closing between the two. However, only 14 wrestlers get the chance to wrestle and Mishawaka continues to reload not rebuild. I wouldn?t doubt Mishawaka they never cease to have a ton of studs. I would be curious to see how many kids schools like Mater Dei and Lawrence North bring in. I doubt Mater Dei has ever had 170 kids out for wrestling ( I could be wrong) and look what they did for so long and continue to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12andcounting Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Mater Dei only has about 275 boys in the whole school, so i do not think they have ever had 170 kids out. Now, if you want to also include the feeder program, than yes they put more than 170 kids out per year. Mishawaka will still compete with Penn. I think for the past decade Penn has struggled to compete with Mishawaka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood3 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 WOW...times sure have changed since I wrestled in the early 90's. No offense, but Penn wasn't exactly a wrestling powerhouse. That's great for wrestling though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matster Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Coach Harper has done an awesome job at Penn since he has arrived. He doesn't only have the numbers but also has quality kids who have learned to love wrestling and are quite skilled. It won't take long before Penn beats Mishawaka in a dual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimtownFather Posted September 24, 2009 Author Share Posted September 24, 2009 Coach Harper has done an awesome job at Penn since he has arrived. He doesn't only have the numbers but also has quality kids who have learned to love wrestling and are quite skilled. It won't take long before Penn beats Mishawaka in a dual. See. This is what I'm talking about. We all know that "Just" numbers doesn't mean anything. But if you can coach the quality out of those types of numbers. The sky could be the limit. I'm not predicting anything on this thread. It's just that those types of numbers can be real scary with a good coach. And it sounds like Penn now has one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boot Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Harper has a great presence and really brings people out, he helped get wrestling going again at Benton Central after a couple of previous coaches had destroyed it. I wouldn't doubt he could get that many kids interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macdaddy Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 I think you guys are talking about the entire program (high school, middle school & kids). I hate to be a doubter but 170 kids for a high school would be amazing. I mean there are colleges that don't have those numbers in football! Even here in Portage during our "hay day" we only had about 60 kids at the high school level. How would you coach 170 kids? The logistics issues alone would be huge. There is no way you offer quality coaching and have space at 1 practice. You would have to divide up practice times, etc. But even if it the entire program, 170 kids is great number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naco228 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Before I graduate from college....Penn WILL beat Mishawaka. There, I said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachW33 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 I would be interested to see how many kids Mishawaka has in their entire program including middle school and feeder programs. I would bet it is close to Penn's. I will agree Harper is a great coach who brings tons of knowledge and excitement a program needs to be successful. However, I think we need to understand Mishawaka has the same thing in Coach Snyder. It will be interesting and I am excited to see the next five years unfold. NAco228 when will you be graduating? You may need to restructure your schedule so you meet that prediction. What have the dual meet scores between these teams look like in the last few years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFlatt Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 MacDaddy- Penn had 300 kids in their elementary program last year!! Numbers are out of this world out at Penn- Harper does a good job of spreading the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LpBrown90 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 MacDaddy- Penn had 300 kids in their elementary program last year!! Numbers are out of this world out at Penn- Harper does a good job of spreading the word. Awesome. I didn't know it was that high. Harper is a great coach and great guy. Good luck Penn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macdaddy Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 That's incredible! They deserve alot of credit just managing those kind of numbers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naco228 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 I would be interested to see how many kids Mishawaka has in their entire program including middle school and feeder programs. I would bet it is close to Penn's. I will agree Harper is a great coach who brings tons of knowledge and excitement a program needs to be successful. However, I think we need to understand Mishawaka has the same thing in Coach Snyder. It will be interesting and I am excited to see the next five years unfold. NAco228 when will you be graduating? You may need to restructure your schedule so you meet that prediction. What have the dual meet scores between these teams look like in the last few years? I would graduate from college in 2014 I think thats plenty of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 If a good Penn wrestler transfers to Mishawaka, who gets credit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 penn has the team this year they will beat mishawaka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHS08 Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 It should be can Penn compete with Mishawaka, come on mishawaka has dominated last couple of years. I think they even shut them out 2 years ago and last year wasnt pretty. Mishawaka will win but penn has gotten better. they are not yet at mishawakas level!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M109R Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 penn has the team this year they will beat mishawaka. Penn would of gave Mishawaka a good match this year probably losing by 10-15 . But with the addition of Stahl that number could be 15-20 . Next year is a different story. I say that Penn beats the Cavemen in 2011,providing that Mishawaka doesn't get a bunch of stud tranfers(like they seem to always get). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood3 Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 If Harper's team beats Mishawaka, doesn't Mishawaka still get the win? Seriously though, who's going to be the first to put money on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M109R Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 If Harper's team beats Mishawaka, doesn't Mishawaka still get the win? Seriously though, who's going to be the first to put money on this? NO , When Mishawaka shut out Penn 2 years ago , using 4 former Penn wrestlers , Penn couldn't claim victory . It will be nice when the day comes that the Cavemen have to rely on only their homegrown wrestlers . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M109R Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 WOW...times sure have changed since I wrestled in the early 90's. No offense, but Penn wasn't exactly a wrestling powerhouse. That's great for wrestling though. Your kidding right ? Penn made it to Team State in 96,97 and 98 . I think Penn owned Mishawaka for much of the 90's . Penn is in most years a top 5-10 team . The last couple years have been a struggle . The cupboard was bare when Harper took over , due in large part to tranfers , and kids not sticking with the program . That all is changing rapidly , just look at the size of the Penn wrestling club . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 2-4 more years of Mishawaka winning... after that when these stud elementary kids get in the program...that's when it will get closer...this year mishawaka will win...no shutout prediction but it will be a large margin victory... and quit with the whole transfer thing....get over it you can make an exscuse all you want but it wont improve the Penn program...I have talked to coach Harper a ton and never once heard him say anything about the whole issue, he was alwais just trying to get his kids better, which is what all of you should be worrying about instead of all this drama good luck to both programs anything to make Indiana Wrestling better as a whole is great to me including tougher competition. Im sick of all these Ohio kids saying how terrible we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M109R Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 2-4 more years of Mishawaka winning... after that when these stud elementary kids get in the program...that's when it will get closer...this year mishawaka will win...no shutout prediction but it will be a large margin victory... and quit with the whole transfer thing....get over it you can make an exscuse all you want but it wont improve the Penn program...I have talked to coach Harper a ton and never once heard him say anything about the whole issue, he was alwais just trying to get his kids better, which is what all of you should be worrying about instead of all this drama good luck to both programs anything to make Indiana Wrestling better as a whole is great to me including tougher competition. Im sick of all these Ohio kids saying how terrible we are. Well fab , when Penn starts beating Mishawaka consistantly (we all know it's coming) ,and studs around the area start transferring to Penn . We will see if you still sing the same song . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Before I graduate from college....Penn WILL beat Mishawaka. There, I said it. Well, that gives them plenty of time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 What an awesome topic to begin with!@#$% I refereed Benton Central in Regional matches and the parent support was incredible. Meanwhile, I have a friend who's son wrestled in Penn's elementary program (Hi Patty). I think they started the youth practices at 5:30 (a.m.) and the worked out according to age groups. I am pretty sure that there were middle school kids coming from evening matches to get in a pratice in the room with Harper! This is not unusual for 'Mishawaka' people (Penn is also in Mishawaka). Second, I have refereed the Mishawaka vs. Penn war a few times and both of the last two years. Yes, Penn was shutout two years ago. Last year it was hard to tell exactly what was happening in the midst of the DJ, the spotlights, and the National Guard that followed me around like I was the leader of the free world that night, BUT there was a clear difference in the attitude of the Penn kids. They won a couple of the first matches in that dual and the temperment of the whole Penn crowd was that they expected to win. Honestly, it was one of the best competitions I have ever officiated in any sport. That includes mud volleyball and two hand touch on Marion St. It was one of the most hotly contested battles since they opened a Ryan's buffet in Elkhart. The atmosphere afterward was something like a 15 year reunion. I want to make a predition but it would be better if we all just packed into the Penn balcony next year to watch (they won't allow you to sit on the floor). By the way, why hasn't anyone mentioned that it should be called Penn vs. the Michiana All-Stars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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