NickS Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I feel the same way. Talk to the kids. I don't seem to be getting much support from this board on my perspective as it seems almost everyone contributing is either a coach, a parent, or someone who has simply been out of competitive wrestling for quite sometime. I have asked the opinion of many of my old high school and college teammates on the topic and many of them agree with me and see exactly where I am coming from. If I asked my grandpa on the other hand, he would probably say something very similar to what I have been getting on this forum. How are kids going to know how to compare weight cutting of today vs. 15 years ago? It would be stupid to think these kids could give any good insight on what happened when they were babies, and compare it to what they do today. Besides, the original premise of your thread was that kids should cut to whatever weight they want. Wrestlers dying because of drastic weight cutting, just over a decade ago, shows that shouldn't be allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I feel the same way. Talk to the kids. I don't seem to be getting much support from this board on my perspective as it seems almost everyone contributing is either a coach, a parent, or someone who has simply been out of competitive wrestling for quite sometime. I have asked the opinion of many of my old high school and college teammates on the topic and many of them agree with me and see exactly where I am coming from. If I asked my grandpa on the other hand, he would probably say something very similar to what I have been getting on this forum. How are kids going to know how to compare weight cutting of today vs. 15 years ago? It would be stupid to think these kids could give any good insight on what happened when they were babies, and compare it to what they do today. Besides, the original premise of your thread was that kids should cut to whatever weight they want. Wrestlers dying because of drastic weight cutting, just over a decade ago, shows that shouldn't be allowed. Coach - I don't think Doug is saying that kids today would have good insight on weight loss 15 years ago. He's saying heavy weight cutting still takes place today and the fact that you are a coach means you really aren't a good source to speak to this subject. Kids aren't going to open up to you like they would to a fellow wrestler/teammate. Things ARE better today regarding weight loss and if you want to attribute that solely to the weight program you are welcome to that opinion. Just know things aren't perfect in paradise and kids still lose tremendous amounts of weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeandBreighton Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I agree with both Y2 and Warrendad but It would be nice to have another weight class in college for the upper weights because 215's in hs are alot of times tweeners. And could potentially lead to poor choices. I agree. At Big 10s, I saw former #1 recruit Cody Gardner and he looked like crap from cutting weight all season. He was a 215lber in high school and looked horrible at 197. A year of cutting weight took the life out of him. If cutting weight doesn't help, why doesn't Escebedo wrestle 141? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinedad Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I agree with both Y2 and Warrendad but It would be nice to have another weight class in college for the upper weights because 215's in hs are alot of times tweeners. And could potentially lead to poor choices. I agree. At Big 10s, I saw former #1 recruit Cody Gardner and he looked like crap from cutting weight all season. He was a 215lber in high school and looked horrible at 197. A year of cutting weight took the life out of him. If cutting weight doesn't help, why doesn't Escebedo wrestle 141? There is a difference between walking around weight and wrestling weight. But to cut to much, you are going to hurt yourself in the long run. Walk around weight you are in the weight room, eating all day, you are most likely in the 10-12% body fat range since you are in the weight room lifting and gaining strength. Wrestling weight, you are cutting out alot of the foods that you use to gain strength, and watching your diet a bit closer, and will be in the 7-8% range +- 1% on both. It is when you are cutting into the 4-5% range that you might start running into trouble, that is what is wrong with cutting to much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Doug You need to stick to the facts surrounding your position. You are comparing opinions and you no what they say about opinions. You need to consult some experts and stop soliciting opinions from coaches, old and current teammates, and of course don't listen to those to those parents they couldn't possibly know any thing about what is in your best interest. Grandpa is probably the greatest resource you have consulted so far. There is a lot to be said for his "Wisdom". Consult Doctors,nutritional experts, stenghth & conditioning professional and a host of other experts not associated with wrestling to gain a better perspective. For your FYI . I am the parent of a son who has wrestled for 14 years now and is wrestling in college right now. We do not buy into the weight cutting Crap and he has been very successful so far. He does it the Y2 way. This is the right way. He trains all year round and hones his skills. The big weight cutters have been stunned when he comes out and pounds them down to size in a 7 minute all gutts match. It was amazing and fun to watch. It often looked like David vs Goliath. We all know what happened in that match up. Good Luck and do not take any of this personal. Grandpa was my sons greatest hero and he consulted with him regularly. Start with him. Respectfully Oscar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I agree with both Y2 and Warrendad but It would be nice to have another weight class in college for the upper weights because 215's in hs are alot of times tweeners. And could potentially lead to poor choices. I agree. At Big 10s, I saw former #1 recruit Cody Gardner and he looked like crap from cutting weight all season. He was a 215lber in high school and looked horrible at 197. A year of cutting weight took the life out of him. I agree with that. Gardner was too small for 285, but the cut to 197 is too much on his body. Jake O'Brien was a similar case, as have been a lot of others through the years. With 211 as an Olympic weight, it would make sense to have a 215 or 220 class in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I agree with both Y2 and Warrendad but It would be nice to have another weight class in college for the upper weights because 215's in hs are alot of times tweeners. And could potentially lead to poor choices. I agree. At Big 10s, I saw former #1 recruit Cody Gardner and he looked like crap from cutting weight all season. He was a 215lber in high school and looked horrible at 197. A year of cutting weight took the life out of him. If cutting weight doesn't help, why doesn't Escebedo wrestle 141? He could wrestle whatever weight he wants to and be successful. During his redshirt season he was very successful at 133lbs. He's not good because he cuts weight, he is good because he is fast, has great technique, great conditioning, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 As a multi-sport coach who coaches primarily multi-sport athletes, I would be negligent if I asked kids to cut large amounts of weight. It could hinder their overall physical development, seriously curtail how hard they could be expected to work in the weight room during wrestling season, and potentially create a division in the coaching staff. Am I naive enough to believe that huge cuts don't happen anymore? No, but I do think ethical coaches following the weight management plan is good for the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 As a multi-sport coach who coaches primarily multi-sport athletes, I would be negligent if I asked kids to cut large amounts of weight. It could hinder their overall physical development, seriously curtail how hard they could be expected to work in the weight room during wrestling season, and potentially create a division in the coaching staff. Am I naive enough to believe that huge cuts don't happen anymore? No, but I do think ethical coaches following the weight management plan is good for the sport. I have only been around ethical coaches, thankfully, and they follow the weight program to the letter. Any coach who doesn't shouldn't be a coach. Any plan is better than none at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootfirst Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 One of the problems no one has hit on is the combination of kids cutting weight and taking creatin. When taking creatin to get stronger kids don't realize that they have to increase their intake of water. Serious damage can be done to their kidneys when this happens.Kids take supplaments today without proper instruction or supervision. Problems come, not from hard work and sweat but from weight loss supplaments , poor diet, lack of fluids. A teammate of my sons couldn't stay out of the restroom at a resent tourny . when we asked him why he said he had taken a laxative to make weight. Needless to say he lost twice to kids he had previously beaten. We have to remember these are kids that often think they know what they are doing but have no idea or concern of the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Butabi Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 I agree with both Y2 and Warrendad but It would be nice to have another weight class in college for the upper weights because 215's in hs are alot of times tweeners. And could potentially lead to poor choices. I agree. At Big 10s, I saw former #1 recruit Cody Gardner and he looked like crap from cutting weight all season. He was a 215lber in high school and looked horrible at 197. A year of cutting weight took the life out of him. If cutting weight doesn't help, why doesn't Escebedo wrestle 141? He could wrestle whatever weight he wants to and be successful. During his redshirt season he was very successful at 133lbs. He's not good because he cuts weight, he is good because he is fast, has great technique, great conditioning, etc. There is a difference between being good and taking 1st and 3rd in the nation in d1. If he could be a national champ at 133 or 141, then why doesn't he??? Why do the top dogs in the country cut weight then?? It's a competitive edge. For those of you who have stories about how you know someone who is good and doesn't cut weight, think how much more dominant he could be against someone a weight class lower. Once again, NOT saying the more weight you cut, the more successful you will be. I am NOT suggesting season-long starvation and dehydration. Of course nutrition plays a role in your wrestling success. Maybe the system is just too strict then as far as how much weight you can lose and how fast you can lose it. I just feel the regulations restrict the wrestler a bit too much. I have given this much thought and perhaps the weight regulations could simply be revised, rather than completely thrown away. Perhaps being able to lose more weight per week, but not to a dangerous excess or something similiar would help the wrestlers be able to be a bit more competitive without being at risk for a critical state. This would still do as much as the current regulations as far as preventing deaths, and the wrestler wouldn't be held down to 1 or 2 easily reached weight classes. Any suggestions? And that's a great point Shootfirst, many "weight-cutting" deaths are a result from losing weight while taking supplements such as creatine or even laxatives. These are things which should not even be considered during a weight-loss regimen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 http://www.flowrestling.org/videos/coverage/view_video/234906-2009-us-open/169711-hrovats-bum-status Hmmm this fella says cutting weight isn't all its cracked up to be..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Coach - I don't think Doug is saying that kids today would have good insight on weight loss 15 years ago. He's saying heavy weight cutting still takes place today and the fact that you are a coach means you really aren't a good source to speak to this subject. Kids aren't going to open up to you like they would to a fellow wrestler/teammate. Things ARE better today regarding weight loss and if you want to attribute that solely to the weight program you are welcome to that opinion. Just know things aren't perfect in paradise and kids still lose tremendous amounts of weight. I think coaches are better sources than what you think. Sometimes kids can't see the forest through the trees, believe me I was one. I see some kids today griping and complaining about weight cutting (at least what they call it) and I have to chuckle about it. At least we agree that things are better when it comes to weight loss today. This is what my biggest beef was that it was suggested that the weigh regulations have had zero impact. I'm not attributing it solely on the weight regulations, but I think it's had a significant impact. And you're right, there are still kids that are losing a ton of weight. I just don't think there are as many today. A foundation has been built with the weight programs. We just need to keep adding onto it because it's not close to perfect yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeandBreighton Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I agree with both Y2 and Warrendad but It would be nice to have another weight class in college for the upper weights because 215's in hs are alot of times tweeners. And could potentially lead to poor choices. I agree. At Big 10s, I saw former #1 recruit Cody Gardner and he looked like crap from cutting weight all season. He was a 215lber in high school and looked horrible at 197. A year of cutting weight took the life out of him. If cutting weight doesn't help, why doesn't Escebedo wrestle 141? He could wrestle whatever weight he wants to and be successful. During his redshirt season he was very successful at 133lbs. He's not good because he cuts weight, he is good because he is fast, has great technique, great conditioning, etc. So why cut 12 pounds after 3 years out of high school if you can win at any weight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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