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Westforkwhite

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  1. Westforkwhite
    Benefit #1 Participation One of the goals of Multi class wrestling would be to increase participation. Please discuss how you believe participation would or wouldn't be impacted by class wrestling. Here is a link to the wrestling participation numbers for all states from 1969-2015. http://www.nfhs.org/ParticipationStatics/ParticipationStatics.aspx/
  2. Westforkwhite
    After spending a couple years observing and participating in class wrestling debates on the IndianaMat board, and I wanted to see if I could help focus the discussion by breaking out each topic. Often I find our debates are muddled as each side is arguing to different benefits/detractions. We all have positions and opinions on the topic because we care about wrestling in Indiana, and I think each side of the argument wants to see IN improve. I will make a separate topic to discuss each issue on it's own merits. The goal of this post is to list out all the perspective benefits that IN could yield from implementing Multi class wrestling, and hopefully build some consensus (or nearly so) around some of the individual issues. Top Benefits (potential) 1) Increased Participation A) Total Wrestlers in the State Total Wrestlers entering the State Tournament 2) Increased Quality A) Increase in the Top End quality Increase in Overall quality 3) Increased Exposure (colleges) 4) Fairness Let me know what major benefits you see with the implementation of Multi class wrestling. Please list any major benefits I've left off. Thanks.
  3. Westforkwhite
    I think your analysis of the match ups is spot on but your equating class wrestling as the reason OH and IL have better wrestlers at the top is a bit of a stretch. IL is double IN's population and OH nearly so. Both IL and OH had more wrestlers participating before they classed than they do now. (So did PA)
  4. Westforkwhite
    The dual isnt remotely close. I think KY could have up to 4 decisions go in their favor but I can't see them scoring many bonus points if any. Whereas IN picks up bonus points up and down the lineup. 42 - 15 is best case scenario for KY
  5. Westforkwhite
    Adams Central had a great season (wherever that school is). You should be proud of your kids. That zero points scored is very strong. I assure you that we will take your criticism to heart and get better. Thanks for your multiple post knocking our kids...... gesh! #TheCounty Adams Central is in the historically best wrestling county per capita in the state. (sent multiple this year from their tiny school) You could say the original "the county" long before hash tags were put on message boards by passionate parents.
  6. Westforkwhite
    Joe Lee
  7. Westforkwhite
    I'll guess 7-3 Curtis
  8. Westforkwhite
    Royce Deckard was a 4th place SS finisher that won state in 91 or 92 I believe
  9. Westforkwhite
    I'm not sure how 33% of the qualifiers/placers coming from 12.5% of the student population would ever be considered equitable.
  10. Westforkwhite
    Would that be your definition of fair?
  11. Westforkwhite
    That doesn't factor the forfeits. Using last years forfeit numbers, 1a had 27% of the total wrestlers entered. Meaning the schools representing 12.5% of the total student population only filled 82% of their third of the total. So applying their entry rate of 82% (as it relates to the whole) to the student population that gives 10.25%, which is percentage of 1a wrestlers that should be qualifying and placing. 1a seems to overachieve slightly on qualifiers and more dramatically under performs on placers. The 2a class consistently over performs in both qualifiers and places, so much so that a combined 1a & 2a exceed their student population in qualifiers and placers. The lack of placers at 1a is still a little troubling, but the combined numbers don't suggest our small to mid size school's are not getting an equitable share of qualifiers or placers.
  12. Westforkwhite
    It seemed like a person or two was concerned with MD only getting 5 thru and how the mighty had fallen. I look at the young talent they already have at the HS and all that MS talent, its hard for me to imagine them being anything but great for many years to come.
  13. Westforkwhite
    If I recall Smith could have had TD & NF, but the match was stopped due to injury. A close call, that certainly could have gone against Red. (I'm glad it didn't though)
  14. Westforkwhite
    That's horrible. He is a really nice young man, I hope they both have a quick and full recovery
  15. Westforkwhite
    Great Article!
  16. Westforkwhite
    All of the states you list have a greater wrestling traditions than Indiana, and you have no idea whether class wrestling helped or hurt the participation rates. We only have post class #s from those states, without pre-class #s we are only assuming an outcome which hasn't been supported by data.
  17. Westforkwhite
    Taking away opportunities from JV wrestlers at top programs in hopes that it will magically result in more wrestlers wanting to wrestle at non-traditional programs is a huge leap of faith. I don't think we raise the quality or quantity of wrestlers in the state by diminishing our top programs. Apathy in non-traditional programs will not be affected by punishing power schools. It takes a tremendous amount of passion and dedication by one man (head coach) who in turn, has to get dozens of other people passionate so they too will contribute obscene amounts of their time into making a program a success. That doesn't even include getting kids out for the team, keeping them on the team, developing their skills, etc... I just don't see that taking chances away from JV kids is going to spark this level of interest and commitment in floundering programs. Please don't take this as "small coaches aren't working hard enough", because I certainly don't feel that way.
  18. Westforkwhite
    That's a huge assumption that has never been supported by data. I haven't seen anyone provide a comparison of pre-class numbers to the post-class numbers in any state. So we are only assuming that classing wrestling will increase participation because we don't know any of the pre-class participation rates. All evidence to suggest it would have a major impact at schools with a general apathy towards wrestling has been anecdotal at best, and certainly subject to other interpretations.
  19. Westforkwhite
    The JV kids for the teams that can field 2 or more full teams are often better than half of the varsity wrestlers in the state. (hence why the 2nd teams from these programs win more than they lose) It's not just because they go to a bigger school with a bigger room, and better coaching (although these don't hurt), but because they wrestle in the off season. So to exclude those multi-season JV wrestlers to the benefit of the not-so-good varsity kids who don't put the same level of time into it, seems contradictory to the stated purpose. "Hey kid, I know you worked hard all year to get better (and have) but you couldn't crack the lineup so now you've got to wrestle JV matches against kids who aren't in the same stratosphere as you skill wise." Have fun with that. I imagine running 3 teams has had a huge boost in the retention rate of kids at programs like Penn and Perry, and it's had negative effects on programs who have had the depth to run multiple teams but have chosen not to. Look no one wants to be JV (although we can't all be varsity) and by disguising the JV as a second varsity team (getting real varsity matches), it gives the kids pride.
  20. Westforkwhite
    152 - #9 C. Rutter (Yorktown) dec over #11 B. Lehman (Urbana) (OH D2) 4-2
  21. Westforkwhite
    They definitely are looking upward. Oliver, Skatzka, and Danishek are all going to be AA contenders for the next 3-4 years. Jackson will be a good anchor and could challenge for a title again. Pepple might surprise some folks at 133 next year, he looked pretty good making the 20 pound jump, I expect he'll be even better next year with more time to fill out and adjust. Rypel is going be great in a couple years, and I hope that Cash and Miller can be impact guys in a year or two. Not sure if that's better development or improved recruiting, we'll see how these kids develop. Last year it was Taylor and Jackson and not much else to be hopeful for. Next year there is much more to be optimistic about.
  22. Westforkwhite
    Congrats Drake.
  23. Westforkwhite
    I gotcha. My apologies, I interpreted in the wrong context. And to that point, it is a shame wrestling has to compete with the basketball tournament. The basketball tournament has become a tradition which draws many casual sports viewers, many who haven't watched a college bball game all year. I believe the NCAA wrestling could do the same thing if it wasn't in direct completion for those casual viewers. This has been an exciting tourney with lots of upsets, much anticipated matchups, and overall high level of wrestling. NCAA wrestling has really evolved from the low scoring slugfest as the norm to become a higher scoring much more entertaining to watch style of wrestling. Maybe I'm way off but I think this is something that is marketable to the casual sport fan. I'm not saying that there will be office pools for wrestling across the country, but it could fit nicely into the sports void that occurs after NCAA bball and the masters.
  24. Westforkwhite
    So I guess those other divisions aren't real.
  25. Westforkwhite
    It's really cool that for the second year in a row IN has two brothers (at least) who are both All Americans! Congrats to Collin and Nick!
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