IHSAA Wrestling Grievances – The 12 Days of IHSAA Christmas

[buttler73]

8 hours ago, Holden said:

Apparently, Ohtani is deferring his salary and only taking 2 million a year so the Dodgers can keep spending.  I guess that means he gets the rest at the end of the ten years.  Maybe you could negotiate a contract like that, coach. 

I would want the interest from the years it sits. Because when they go to pay him that $1.00 will be worth less than todays dollar.

 

[casualwrestlingfan]

It's simple, so that's why it will never happen in this state. The IHSAA needs to recognize the team state dual tournament and make it just like the football state tournament with the rule that a dual team is one that fills 8 weight classes. Have it tournament Tuesday or Thursday for those duals not counting in the stupid schedule points bs. This can run from mid January through February. Then the IHSAA needs to create a classed Individual tournament series that doesn't factor into the point system schedule bs. This can start last weekend of December or first weekend of January until the week before the single class Individual tournament series so 2-3 weeks. Use those results to help seed sectionals of the single class system. Make that point system be 18 +3T at minimum.

[buttler73]

11 hours ago, Wrestling Scholar said:

I think this is where you're not getting it:

Yes, Illness, communible skin disease,  not making weight, disqualification by ref, etc are  an inherent part of wrestling and  mostly cant be avoided

 

But eliminating good wrestlers because of chance of bad draw is very avoidable and a systematic flaw in the IHSAA tournament.  That's what wrestlebacks do, and why every other state and 99% of wrestling tournaments have them.    We did some research  a few years back and looked at multiple  state tournament 16 man brackets with wrestle backs  and found a median  17%  rate that the wrestler losing in 1st round came back and placed in the top 4.    I think its fair to say the IHSAA tournament is putting  approximately 17% of the wrong guys in the state tournament due to the system flaw of no wrestlebacks.

So one example from just last year that would help support this .With Luke Rioux out of Avon. He lost the Blood Round IN Evansville to Jackson Heaston of Indina Creek HE was also a finalist at 113. HE is from the Avon sectional where he placed second behind Preston but n front of Ash. Go to regionals and w then drops to Larocca wrestles for 3/4 beats Ash again. 

Moves to Semi State as a # seed and get Jackson in the blood round. Out. Ash the 4 seed gets through .

At state the finals 4 ---Are Larocca over Heaston & Haines wins over Ash for 3/4. TOP 4 all came out of E-ville. Rioux having beat Ash twice in Regular season 2-0 and in the Regionals (5-0) only to be done in by the draw.

Ash is a great wrestlers. But Luke shut him down zero points in two matches.

So were the top 4 wrestlers there or 8? Not in my opinion. I know this is a 1 off but I am sure there are others.

[Silence Dogood]

5 minutes ago, buttler73 said:

So one example from just last year that would help support this .With Luke Rioux out of Avon. He lost the Blood Round IN Evansville to Jackson Heaston of Indina Creek HE was also a finalist at 113. HE is from the Avon sectional where he placed second behind Preston but n front of Ash. Go to regionals and w then drops to Larocca wrestles for 3/4 beats Ash again. 

Moves to Semi State as a # seed and get Jackson in the blood round. Out. Ash the 4 seed gets through .

At state the finals 4 ---Are Larocca over Heaston & Haines wins over Ash for 3/4. TOP 4 all came out of E-ville. Rioux having beat Ash twice in Regular season 2-0 and in the Regionals (5-0) only to be done in by the draw.

Ash is a great wrestlers. But Luke shut him down zero points in two matches.

So were the top 4 wrestlers there or 8? Not in my opinion. I know this is a 1 off but I am sure there are others.

[buttler73]

4 minutes ago, Silence Dogood said:

Sorry basically showing Rioux got knocked at SS and he was a top 4 guy last year... And is again this year.

[Silence Dogood]

9 minutes ago, buttler73 said:

Sorry basically showing Rioux got knocked at SS and he was a top 4 guy last year... And is again this year.

Agree... I'm in the wrestleback camp. 

[rookie78]

9 hours ago, Holden said:

Apparently, Ohtani is deferring his salary and only taking 2 million a year so the Dodgers can keep spending.  I guess that means he gets the rest at the end of the ten years.  Maybe you could negotiate a contract like that, coach. 

It's worth a shot.

[Silence Dogood]

1 minute ago, rookie78 said:

It's worth a shot.

Either that or go for the Bobby Bonilla deal. 

[ghughes1974]

On the sixth day of Christmas, IHSAA gave to me, random draws determining advancement

 

Several of you have made this point already.  But here it is again.

 

In regionals, we have 2 rounds of wrestling to determine seeding at semi-state.  At semi-state, we have an additional 2 rounds of wrestling to determine seeding at state.  However, the seeding from both regionals and semi-state is randomly drawn against the other 3 regionals or semi-states.  That’s 4 total rounds of wrestling to determine seeding only to feed into a random draw.  If your regionals and semi-states are not balanced, what is more important, your seed or your draw? 

 

Seeding definitely matters if you’re the first place finisher.  But let’s say you didn’t win your regional.  If you’re still one of the best four in your semi-state, your advancement may depend on a random draw.  Here’s a scenario.  Let’s give the wrestlers names to make it easier to follow. 

·       Wrestler 1 – First name “State” Last name “Champ”.  You guessed it, STATE CHAMP is the best wrestler in the state. 

·       Wrestler 2 – First name “State” Last name “Placer”.  STATE PLACER is a top 4 kid in the state. 

·       Wrestler 3 – Frist name “Your” Last name “Son”.  YOUR SON is easily top 8 in the state.

 

All three wrestlers are in the same semi-state.  If YOUR SON and STATE PLACER are in the same regional and STATE PLACER beats YOUR SON there, YOUR SON is a 2 seed coming into semi state.  STATE CHAMP won a different regional so he is coming in as a 1 seed from that regional.  The fact that YOUR SON was second in your regional and a high seed, may not matter.  To advance, YOUR SON needs to NOT draw STATE CHAMP.  YOUR SON has the same chance as the 3^rd and 4^th place finishers from his regional of NOT drawing STATE CHAMP even though he finished higher than them.  The draw is more important than YOUR SON’s seed.  In this example, the draw could determine YOUR SON’s ability to advance, and YOUR SON could go home early even though he’s better than others who advance.   Isn’t that unfair to YOUR SON?

 

I’ve seen scenarios like this play out at New Castle, top wrestlers not progressing to state because of their draw.  We just had a post confirming it happens in Evansville as well. 

 

At state, to get on the podium, you need to win your first match.  If you’re 2^nd, 3^rd, or 4^th out of your semi-state, your seed may be important, but with imbalanced semi-states, your draw is potentially more important than your seed. 

 

We do a lot of wrestling for seeds that often don’t matter.  We can solve/reduce this issue by better balancing sectionals and regionals or by instituting wrestling backs or by seeding the top seeds using additional criteria.  Without this, we somewhat consistently send home higher caliber wrestlers due to a random draw. 

 

Does the wrestling community want a draw to be a significant factor in advancement and placement?

[AndyStJ]

4 hours ago, ghughes1974 said:

 

·       Wrestler 1 – First name “State” Last name “Champ”.  You guessed it, STATE CHAMP is the best wrestler in the state. 

·       Wrestler 2 – First name “State” Last name “Placer”.  STATE PLACER is a top 4 kid in the state. 

·       Wrestler 3 – Frist name “Your” Last name “Son”.  YOUR SON is easily top 8 in the state.

 

The issue of "second placer at regionals" vs "1st place State Champ" in the blood round is in my opinion the worst feature of IHSAA. If there is an unbeatable State Champ in your semistate from another regional, you have a 1 in 3 chance of hitting him. You are better off being in the same regional as State Champ, where it is impossible to hit him until you have qualified for State. The sol

The issue of "second placer at regionals" vs "1st place State Champ" in the ticket round is in my opinion the worst feature of IHSAA. If there is an unbeatable State Champ in your semistate from another regional and you placed lower than 1st in yours, you have a 1 in 3 chance of hitting him. You are better off being in the same regional as State Champ, where it is impossible to hit him at semistate until you have qualified for State. The solution is obvious: full wrestlebacks.

Edited December 14, 2023 by AndyStJ
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