maligned Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 The IHSWCA Duals State Championship qualifying scoring and procedures document is now on the IHSWCA website (see Coach McCormick's post at the bottom of this thread for the link!!). I wanted to give a heads-up and begin the education process for some changes that have been made to continue to try to get the qualifying process on a good path while the event is still in its infancy. Small changes: 1. Slight adjustments in scores for advancing to different levels of the state tournament. Also, scoring totals were halved so that final scores more closely resemble typical tournament scoring. 2. The team composition adjustment was eliminated and built into the base scoring. Instead, there are small bonuses for "full" or close to full lineups in 1A and 2A. 3. Because of the one bigger change mentioned below, injury replacements in later rounds (i.e. regional after placing 5th at sectional), will not automatically have points upgraded unless they win matches earning a new advancement level. 4. All entered wrestlers at sectional will score points, regardless of the number of matches they wrestled in the season. One big change: There will be no more multiplier to control for difficulty differences between tournament sites. There was a lot of feedback that it was too confusing and too difficult to calculate on your own. Instead, we are going to a system of "quotas" according to quality-level "Categories" that are assigned to each sectional and regional, similar to the NCAA quota system used for the national championships. We believe this quota system will be much, much easier for following your own team's score once you see how it works. We were able to back-test it extensively on previous years and it is highly accurate as well. Please read this document to understand how it works and to see the sectional and regional Category assignments for 2015: http://indianamat.com/stuff/2015StateDuals.pdf Again, see Coach McCormick's post below for the link to the full scoring document!! infowrestling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Thanks for your work committee. Also, thanks Maligned for all the data organization, number crunching, and senecio generation you help do in order to provide the committee with the best options available to determine what teams should qualify for the the IHSWCA Event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I just see no reason to give someone regional qualifier points when they only get 5th/6th at sectional. That just seems like an inflation of how good a team is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Ok, I think I understand. Trying to understand how you arrived at the quota per sectional and regional. Is it based on the sectionals overall genuis rating or is it based on the sum of points for each teams estimated points based on the genius rating? I know the Zionsville sectional is probably the toughest and received a quota of 6 points. So that means its 50% tougher than a sectional that has a 4. So did Joe input all the dual data into his magical super computer to come up with the final genuis ratings already? Also I saw quota points awarded for 5th and 6th at regional. If my memory is correct, we didnt wrestle out to the 5th or 6th spot last year at reqional. Did that change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I just see no reason to give someone regional qualifier points when they only get 5th/6th at sectional. That just seems like an inflation of how good a team is. You would argue all sectionals are equal then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 You would argue all sectionals are equal then? No, of course some are tougher than others, but now someone that gets 6th at regionals earns semi state qualifier points. Now it is just giving points to kids that didn't earn anything. If a kid is getting 6th in a sectional or regional, then he it is clear he doesn't belong in the next round no matter what secitonal or regional. Strength of a sectional or regional shouldn't award points just because a kid in reality isn't that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Ok, I think I understand. Trying to understand how you arrived at the quota per sectional and regional. Is it based on the sectionals overall genuis rating or is it based on the sum of points for each teams estimated points based on the genius rating? I know the Zionsville sectional is probably the toughest and received a quota of 6 points. So that means its 50% tougher than a sectional that has a 4. So did Joe input all the dual data into his magical super computer to come up with the final genuis ratings already? Also I saw quota points awarded for 5th and 6th at regional. If my memory is correct, we didnt wrestle out to the 5th or 6th spot last year at reqional. Did that change? It's not based on a sectional's overall genius rating. But we compiled data from the last several years and ran it through statistics software that projects how many advancers teams of each Genius level should earn at sectional and regional. (That's the graph on the document.) For example, a team at level 100 should get 13 or 14 to regional, while a level 50 should get about 9 and a level 0 should get 2 or 3. We add all of those expected "achievements" for all teams to compile an expected number of regional qualifiers and an expected number of semi-state qualifiers per weight for an entire sectional or regional. You can see below the first chart on the document, that we use a tiebreaker to determine 5/6 at regional (and 7/8 at sectional where necessary). The tiebreakers are outlined on the state duals qualifying doc that is getting posted on the IHSWCA site as we speak (along with the rest of the details of qualifying). No, we haven't done a final genius rating run yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 I just see no reason to give someone regional qualifier points when they only get 5th/6th at sectional. That just seems like an inflation of how good a team is. The average best unseeded kid at the Zionsville sectional (the SEVENTH best kid) has a record of 18-14. And most of those are big schools wrestling good schedules. You're telling me that those kids aren't just as good as an average third place kid at some sectionals full of small schools? We're not worried about whether we're awarding things correctly on an awards stand. We ONLY care about one thing--figuring out who will be the best duals teams next year. So the "principle" of "man, he didn't earn anything" doesn't mean much if 5 years of data show that the 6th best kid at one sectional is just as good as the third best kid, on average, at another sectional. sportsfangms and bog190 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 You can see below the first chart on the document, that we use a tiebreaker to determine 5/6 at regional (and 7/8 at sectional where necessary). The tiebreakers are outlined on the state duals qualifying doc that is getting posted on the IHSWCA site as we speak (along with the rest of the details of qualifying). No, we haven't done a final genius rating run yet. So is it possible that the quotas could change once final genius rating comes out, or are these locked in and youre not expecting to see much of a statistical change. So Im trying to picture the regional with a quota of 6. So 4 kids will lose first round, but two of these kids will get semi-state points based on the tie breaker criteria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 So is it possible that the quotas could change once final genius rating comes out, or are these locked in and youre not expecting to see much of a statistical change. So Im trying to picture the regional with a quota of 6. So 4 kids will lose first round, but two of these kids will get semi-state points based on the tie breaker criteria? No, quotas are final. After the first weekend of January, very little changes from team to team in terms of altering a full-season performance metric...and when you add all teams together in a sectional or regional, the changes are nothing. Yes, in a regional with a quota of 6, the top 4 get semi-state points. Then we look at sectional positions of the first-round losers as the first tiebreaker. Usually, it comes out to be 2 sectional third place guys or a second and a third that lost and get the semi-state points as 5th and 6th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsfangms Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Maligned came prepared to play today! Nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach McCormick Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 With three years of data under our belt to analyze, and a good amount of feedback from interested parties, the IHSWCA Team State Duals team selection committee, with the outstanding guidance of Mr. Troyer, has finalized the scoring procedures that will be used to establish the field of teams for the 2015-16 Classed Team State Duals Tournament. Please follow the link below to find the full document which outlines the scoring process for teams to put themselves in a position to earn a berth into next season's Classed Team State Duals event. www.ihswca.org/news/selection2015 A big thanks goes out to Mr. Troyer and the selection committee for all of the work they have done in finalizing this important component of our event. Coach McCormick infowrestling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachCurry Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Just trying to understand this... So if I have a kid that's a regional qualifier in a quota 5 regional.. He would get points for a first round SS first round qualifier???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Just trying to understand this... So if I have a kid that's a regional qualifier in a quota 5 regional.. He would get points for a first round SS first round qualifier???? Just trying to understand this... So if I have a kid that's a regional qualifier in a quota 5 regional.. He would get points for a first round SS first round qualifier???? Maligned explained this yesterday. Only 1 of the four 1st round losers in regional will get SS qualifier points. Their is tie breaking criteria, which the first criteria is highest sectional place. Say of the four 1st rd losers, one placed 2nd at sectional and the other 3 placed 3rd and 4th. The wrestler who got 2nd would get the 1st round SS points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachCurry Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Maligned explained this yesterday. Only 1 of the four 1st round losers in regional will get SS qualifier points. Their is tie breaking criteria, which the first criteria is highest sectional place. Say of the four 1st rd losers, one placed 2nd at sectional and the other 3 placed 3rd and 4th. The wrestler who got 2nd would get the 1st round SS points. Ya I got that... I was just making sure that it wasn't like you get 4 more bonus point... That one guy will get the points for a SS1R Qualifier correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Ya I got that... I was just making sure that it wasn't like you get 4 more bonus point... That one guy will get the points for a SS1R Qualifier correct? Yes, CoachCurry...one guy in each weight class of a Category 5 regional who wins the 5th place tiebreaker will be assigned semi-state first round points. That's a bump up from 8 points to 14 points in 3A scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts