INDIANAWRESTLER Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Boooooo!!! Haha...I kid, I kid. You know everything he said is pretty darn valid. He is right about Central, Reitz, Mount Vernon, Memorial and Harrison having 3rd ref envy. We don't hate...we just don't appreciate. Our kids love wrestling and work just as hard as Mater Dei's and getting a match decided by an iffy call is part of life but having 70% (I just made that up) of the iffy calls going for MD while rabid parents are yelling and booing gets a little bit old. But its a part of life that we have been forced to live with. Unfortunately. a huge part of MD wrestling is tradition. no offense to any other SIAC team but MD wrestling is a dynasty. In my opinion, most refs actually oppose the MD crowds. and a comment was made about Konrath dominating most the match? come on, Egli did his homework, he kept it close and won when he needed. it was close and will be the most anticipated match at the Ford center and quite possibly at Bankers Life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What? Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Say What, I appreciate the effort all kids put into wrestling. However, your comment "Our kids work just as hard as MD"......well....I guess I would take that bet any day of the week.... Not to say some kids don't work that hard but as a team, both in and out of season I can guarantee you that the teams you mentioned are absolutely not putting in the same effort that MDs wrestling team does... It was a blanket statement but you just made my case in point. Should I take it that since Mater Dei obviously puts in more effort as a team that they get way more benefits from iffy calls? I have maintained and acknowledged Mater Dei is very talented and has a stellar coaching staff but having all those things shouldnt affect a kids season over a call. Of course Mater Dei has the most dominate team in region but that doesn't mean those kids should get better OR worse calls. I just wish the refs called the matches on what they see and not on the pressure of the boo birds in the stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestleMan Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I think it's terribly insulting to officials to claim they are swayed but fans yelling for their team. Do you think they're afraid they will be attacked by MD fans in the parking lot if they don't give a call? Seriously? Let's be honest, all fans scream and yell for their wrestlers and they should. Let's not pretend to think that fans yelling changes calls though. These officials are professional and their integrity shouldn't be questioned like that. If you don't like MD's fan base yelling louder than yours you should get more fans. Odds are you're from a larger school so it shouldn't be a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDIANAWRESTLER Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 other teams work as hard as MD wrestling? haven't witnessed a practice but viewing their dominance week in and week out, I would say they work ALOT harder than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boiler10 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Maybe MD "gets the calls" because their wrestlers are well versed in the rules and the average fan isn't? I hear lots of fans (MD included) who do not understand the position and scoring and question calls that are fairly cut and dry to knowledgeable fans. There have been numerous times when the MD singlet worked against us when a ref wanted to show how unbiased he was.....In the late 90s when MD was destroying everyone they were accused of "stalling to a win". It got so bad, even SOME refs in middle school (and post season) tournamounts were making biased calls. A number of MD parents did not wear school colors or logos so the ref would not realize it was an MD wrestler. Prove me wrong...encourage your kids to enter all the post season tournamounts and show up all these MD kids when they aren't getting the benefit of the crowd intimidating the referee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hook and half Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 It was a blanket statement but you just made my case in point. Should I take it that since Mater Dei obviously puts in more effort as a team that they get way more benefits from iffy calls? I have maintained and acknowledged Mater Dei is very talented and has a stellar coaching staff but having all those things shouldnt affect a kids season over a call. Of course Mater Dei has the most dominate team in region but that doesn't mean those kids should get better OR worse calls. I just wish the refs called the matches on what they see and not on the pressure of the boo birds in the stands. You say that mater dei shouldn't get "better or worse" calls. I saw the 160 semifinal, and amazingly, 3/4 of the gym was filled with Tecumseh fans. You will admit that all of those howling Tecumseh fans affected the outcome of the match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB145 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 You say that mater dei shouldn't get "better or worse" calls. I saw the 160 semifinal, and amazingly, 3/4 of the gym was filled with Tecumseh fans. You will admit that all of those howling Tecumseh fans affected the outcome of the match? Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't that match end in a pin? Not a last second reversal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What? Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I think it's terribly insulting to officials to claim they are swayed but fans yelling for their team. Do you think they're afraid they will be attacked by MD fans in the parking lot if they don't give a call? Seriously? Let's be honest, all fans scream and yell for their wrestlers and they should. Let's not pretend to think that fans yelling changes calls though. These officials are professional and their integrity shouldn't be questioned like that. If you don't like MD's fan base yelling louder than yours you should get more fans. Odds are you're from a larger school so it shouldn't be a problem So you will say that call was 100% correct? You have to be kidding me when you say officials (from every sport) don't make calls on reactions from the bleachers. Do I think they walk out there saying to the them self "all calls are going to be for wrestler X"? No. But when wrestler X has a ton of people yelling for a call the human (professional or not) nature kicks in. That was not a good call and most agree the crowd had some play in it. Not that if it were the other way around those same people wouldn't mind as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boiler10 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 BB145, I think the point is the tecumseh kid had the benefit of the crowd. Maybe it gave him more drive, more energy or just a little boost...maybe the ref called the pin fast (not saying he did btw) becasue the crowd was calling for it.....point is that MD is always wrestling against the non MD crowd (all of them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What? Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 BB145, I think the point is the tecumseh kid had the benefit of the crowd. Maybe it gave him more drive, more energy or just a little boost...maybe the ref called the pin fast (not saying he did btw) becasue the crowd was calling for it.....point is that MD is always wrestling against the non MD crowd (all of them). Cheering = Good and motivating to wrestler. Booing = Bad and intimidating ref. Cheer all you want (everyone) but let refs make calls on the mat without booing. Those kids work hard for ever point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestleMan Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 So you will say that call was 100% correct? You have to be kidding me when you say officials (from every sport) don't make calls on reactions from the bleachers. Do I think they walk out there saying to the them self "all calls are going to be for wrestler X"? No. But when wrestler X has a ton of people yelling for a call the human (professional or not) nature kicks in. That was not a good call and most agree the crowd had some play in it. Not that if it were the other way around those same people wouldn't mind as much. Obviously you should never be an official in any sport. You probably shouldn't or won't ever have a job in management either. If too many employees started screaming for another week of paid vacation you couldn't possibly say no. Believe it or not some people in this world have backbones and integrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hook and half Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't that match end in a pin? Not a last second reversal? It ended with a pin because, according to Say What, the refs make calls based upon what the fans are yelling for. I promise you, at the conclusion of the semifinal 160 match, it was the loudest that gym was yesterday. Rules do not matter; only your desired outcome versus the actual outcome is what matters. I asked yesterday, at 3:24 pm, what the rule was on the reversal. NOT ONE person quoted the rule criteria for the reversal. What we got was a lot of "viewing experience", " I saws" and " honest opinions". I don't know what the criteria is to award the points. Paul viterisi, a respected official, made a strong call as soon as Egli hooked his foot. Not one person has quoted a rule that would support the argument that viterisi made the wrong call. Although md has shed the tights, the uniform still offends. You don't like md school/kids/fans/wrestlers/tights/west side/fall festival/etcetera, therefore, if an md kid wins a close match, the only logical conclusion is that the other kid got screwed. To paraphrase mark twain, never let facts, or lack there of, get in the way of an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What? Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Obviously you should never be an official in any sport. You probably shouldn't or won't ever have a job in management either. If too many employees started screaming for another week of paid vacation you couldn't possibly say no. Believe it or not some people in this world have backbones and integrity. That's a cute story about my career and obvious inability to ever succeed in the real world BUT was it the correct call? You forgot to answer that while giving your esteemed motivational speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hook and half Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Cheering = Good and motivating to wrestler. Booing = Bad and intimidating ref. Cheer all you want (everyone) but let refs make calls on the mat without booing. Those kids work hard for ever point. I agree! I urge to to admonish the fans of the 19 non-mater dei schools for booing the officials after the Egli/Konrath match. Clearly, they were trying to intimidate the officials. Urge them to model themselves after md's fans. Cheering--good Booing--bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB145 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 It ended with a pin because, according to Say What, the refs make calls based upon what the fans are yelling for. I promise you, at the conclusion of the semifinal 160 match, it was the loudest that gym was yesterday. Rules do not matter; only your desired outcome versus the actual outcome is what matters. I asked yesterday, at 3:24 pm, what the rule was on the reversal. NOT ONE person quoted the rule criteria for the reversal. What we got was a lot of "viewing experience", " I saws" and " honest opinions". I don't know what the criteria is to award the points. Paul viterisi, a respected official, made a strong call as soon as Egli hooked his foot. Not one person has quoted a rule that would support the argument that viterisi made the wrong call. Although md has shed the tights, the uniform still offends. You don't like md school/kids/fans/wrestlers/tights/west side/fall festival/etcetera, therefore, if an md kid wins a close match, the only logical conclusion is that the other kid got screwed. To paraphrase mark twain, never let facts, or lack there of, get in the way of an opinion. Stay with me here. I didn't make this post saying this was MD vs Anyone. Others commented this yes but the thread was started with one intention. Was the right call made. I brought up the 220 finals too. It did not feature a MD wrestler. I thought that was very poorly officiated. Which did feature the same ref. I know nothing about him other than what I seen in the finals. I am sure he is an upstanding guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCard Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I don't really know what your asking? That's like saying whats a turd burger? I mean what's an XCard? Ugh, I have a picture of what an XCard is to the left of this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestleMan Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Glad you thought it was cute. I do not claim to know if the call was correct or not. What I am against is the questioning of an officials integrity. I say it's a slap in the face and an insult they don't deserve. I don't claim to know the rules better than the paid officials. If I thought I did I would have told you by now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What? Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I agree! I urge to to admonish the fans of the 19 non-mater dei schools for booing the officials after the Egli/Konrath match. Clearly, they were trying to intimidate the officials. Urge them to model themselves after md's fans. Cheering--good Booing--bad Lol, touché however booing after the fact was as bad as the other side during the match. Just let them call it and live with it. I have maintained that position the whole time. Officials occasionally make mistakes but overall they do a much better job than given credit for. There were hundreds if not thousands of calls made and for 1 or 2 to be all that we are talking about is pretty remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigginhurts Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 We can have opinions all day long , or days long, that we want on this call, but the thing that is really interesting to me is that you pointed out that this guy is one of the best in college as well. In my opinion and solution to this comes in. Looking at this reversal I think that in college rules you have a leg to stand on for the call that was made, however this is not college. as everyone has pointed out that Egli had the ankle well Konrath had the other ankle above his head and the other arm around his waste. So he may have grounds in high school rules as well either way. OR he maybe confused by the college rules. I know some of you are going to say that I a stupid for thinking that some one could confuse the two rule books, but come on. I think we all seen the replacement refs in the NFL as couple years ago. when you have two rule book to go by you can and will get them mixed up. So here is the solution lets go college rules in high school. Also to another point entirely. the statement was made that Egli deserved the 2 pts ten seconds before it had ever got called. if that is true then that did not hurt Egli but Konrath. Because it cut down ten more seconds for him to escape. So in other words I can't wait for saturday. I love watching these two individually and especially on the mat for 6 minutes together. fair enough...i can live with what you say. and i don't know if i agree with it being a reversal, but i think it was close enough either way. my main point is that i don't think the ref made the call based on the crowd's (MD crowd to be precise) influence. The other thing I hate (not necessarily in this case) is when someone says "he still had a leg".... just because you still have someones leg doesn't mean its not a reversal or takedown---there are several cases where I could still have ahold of a leg but would surrender the reversal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hook and half Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Lol, touché however booing after the fact was as bad as the other side during the match. Just let them call it and live with it. I have maintained that position the whole time. Officials occasionally make mistakes but overall they do a much better job than given credit for. There were hundreds if not thousands of calls made and for 1 or 2 to be all that we are talking about is pretty remarkable. Is this advice intended for me or you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigginhurts Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I am amazed. Through all of this conjecture, supposition and opinion, somehow you maintain an unbiased and honest position! Are you a judge or some kind of professional mediator? easily the quote of the night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boiler10 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Booing during the match? By MD? Did you misinterpret the cheering as the reversal was happening as booing? I am not sure where in that match the MD faithful (or MV faithful as far as that goes) had an opportunity to boo?? The only booing I ever heard was after Egli's hand was raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B1789 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 The call was horrible everyone with eyes and watching the match could see that.. Except MD fans! But it happened and we will see the match again I'm sure. Just let mater dei people be happy with a horrible call in their favor again and move on to the next. It's not going to change the refs minds sitting on here arguing about it. We know who won that match without that call and that's sastifaction enough. Let MD act oblivious to what actually happened when a call is in their favor it just makes them look foolish for even defending it... (Rant over) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestleMan Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 The call was horrible everyone with eyes and watching the match could see that.. Except MD fans! But it happened and we will see the match again I'm sure. Just let mater dei people be happy with a horrible call in their favor again and move on to the next. It's not going to change the refs minds sitting on here arguing about it. We know who won that match without that call and that's sastifaction enough. Let MD act oblivious to what actually happened when a call is in their favor it just makes them look foolish for even defending it... (Rant over) Way to support your argument with facts or rules. You had to be captain of the debate team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigginhurts Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 again, i don't claim it was the right call but I challenge any one of you to tell the ref the next time you see him that he made that call based on the MD crowd. at the same time, i'm not saying it was the wrong call either because 99% of the yahoos on here have never read the rule book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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