SamDad Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 What are the incentives for teams to participate the IHSWCA team state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 What are the incentives for teams to participate the IHSWCA team state? To win a state title, or at least prove that you have the best team in the state. Many feel that the IHSAAs method of choosing a champion is totally flawed and just rewards the team with the best few guys. A team dual event would show who truely has the best team. If the best teams in the state attended the IHSWCA event then I personally would see the teams that won that event as state champs as opposed to seeing a team crowned state champs by the IHSAA without proving it on the mat. For me it doesn't matter who crowns the champ, but how their crowned. I would always recognize the dual champ as the true champ. But no one really would or should care about how I feel about this, the question would be if enough others feel the same as I do, or if they could only y recognize an IHSAA event as champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamDad Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 So would all the schools accept the IHSWCA "state champion" and reward them with blue rings like they would if the basketball team won state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 So would all the schools accept the IHSWCA "state champion" and reward them with blue rings like they would if the basketball team won state? I guess that would be up to the schools themselves. I do know that I have seen schools with rugby, hockey, and lacrosse state titles that have those banners hanging up next to all of the IHSAA titles, they just say something like IHSRA state champs or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 So according to you there will be no team state champions after this year, am I reading that correctly? Do you think your team would get to ride the firetrucks in a parade through Busco if you won an IHSWCA Team State Championship or a Carroll Sectional Championship or both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 From Maligned: http://indianamat.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=7886.0 Data from 2000-2009 12. Crown Point-472 points Individual state championships: 3 State placewinners: 18 Coaches' trophy points: 232 (13th) Team State appearances: 1 Team State titles: 1 11. Griffith-540.5 points Individual state championships: 11 State placewinners: 20 Coaches' trophy points: 380.5 (5th) Team State appearances: 1 Team State runner-up: 1 10. Franklin-548.5 points Individual state championships: 2 State placewinners: 16 Coaches' trophy points: 243.5 (12th) Team State appearances: 3 9. Bloomington South-576 points Individual state championships: 6 State placewinners: 19 Coaches' trophy points: 281 (10th) Team State appearances: 3 8. Indianapolis Cathedral-622.5 points Individual state championships: 3 State placewinners: 32 Coaches' trophy points: 367.5 (6th) Team State appearances: 3 7. Merrillville-639 points Individual state championships: 4 State placewinners: 27 Coaches' trophy points: 354 (7th) Team State appearances: 3 6. Portage-753.5 points Individual state championships: 6 State placewinners: 29 Coaches' trophy points: 393.5 (4th) Team State appearances: 5 Team State runner-up: 1 5. Perry Meridian-782 points Individual state championships: 5 State placewinners: 25 Coaches' trophy points: 297 (9th) Team State appearances: 8 Team State runner-up: 3 4. Bellmont-828 points Individual state championships: 3 State placewinners: 29 Coaches' trophy points: 323 (8th) Team State appearances: 10 Team State runner-up: 1 3. Lawrence North-910 points Individual state championships: 6 State placewinners: 37 Coaches' trophy points: 485 (3rd) Team State appearances: 5 Team State titles: 2 2. Mishawaka-1063 points Individual state championships: 8 State placewinners: 34 Coaches' trophy points: 488 (2nd) Team State appearances: 10 Team State runner-up: 2 Team State titles: 1 1. Evansville Mater Dei-1413 points Individual state championships: 11 State placewinners: 45 Coaches' trophy points: 683 (1st) Team State appearances: 9 Team State runner-up: 1 Team State titles: 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 What are the incentives for teams to participate the IHSWCA team state? Hmmm... Nothing personal but did you wrestle? Do you coach? Is this a real question? Wrestle the best beat the best. Ribbons are for 4H and pageants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 So according to you there will be no team state champions after this year, am I reading that correctly? Do you think your team would get to ride the firetrucks in a parade through Busco if you won an IHSWCA Team State Championship or a Carroll Sectional Championship or both? I am not saying that there will not be team state champions. There will be team state champions still they are just crowned in a flawed method. Im not saying that means that they shouldnt be happy to win the title, or that it doesnt mean something very important that does not take away from the fact that it is a flawed system. Just look at the sectionals and regionals under this system. You could have a deeper, better team win the sectionals, and then the next weekend a weaker team with more studs who lost the sectional could win the regional after it was all ready shown that they were not as good as a team as a whole in the sectionals. As far as us riding firetrucks through Busco, I'd say yes for sure on a sectional title. I personally believe that there would be the same reaction for an IHSWCA title, but it is tough to say. It comes down to the perception of the event. If the top teams where there, in all classes, then yes I would say that it would be excepted as a real title. In practice we had all ready began to sell it to our kids in that way. I know that our kids were excited to have a chance to compete for a small school title next season. With the set up that was proposed this seasons success would have made a big difference in who got invited. Now that it is gone it will not ruin our season, but it will take away something that the kids had a chancd to work for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamDad Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Hmmm... Nothing personal but did you wrestle? Do you coach? Is this a real question? Wrestle the best beat the best. Ribbons are for 4H and pageants. Would winning the IHSWCA team state be any different than winning a random super dual throughout the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 So according to you there will be no team state champions after this year, am I reading that correctly? Do you think your team would get to ride the firetrucks in a parade through Busco if you won an IHSWCA Team State Championship or a Carroll Sectional Championship or both? Y2 we both coach at programs that were around top ten ranked programs in our class according to the genius rankings. I would imagine that the IHSWCA would have used a similar program to choose the eight teams that went to the state finals. So it is feasible that either of our teams could have been invited. Im sure you've thought about that at least for your group. Where you guys not excited about the prospect f having a chance to be invited to Indianapolis to take on the best teams that are similar to your size to prove who the best 2A team in the state was? You dont think that you guys could have sold the event to your administration and your community? How do you think Garrett would react to you being invited down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Would winning the IHSWCA team state be any different than winning a random super dual throughout the season? Dont you think that the teams that were there would make a huge difference in the perception of this event. - These teams come from the end of the season genius rankings, its not exactly who would be there but you'll get the picture If 3a had- Perrt, Carmel, Crown Point, Penn, Lawrence North, Mishawaka, roncolli, Hamilton Southeastern 2A- Yorktown, Bellmont, EVMD, Jimtown, Southmount, Ev. Memorial, Fairfield, Bishop Dwenger 1A- South Adams, Prarie Heights, Adams Central, Delphi, Northfield, Alexandria, Fountain Central, Woodlan If these teams were at an event wrestling to be crowned the best team in their class in Indiana dont you think it would be recognized as more than just another super dual. These are the top teams, and the best team would be the winner in the end. It all comes down to who participated in the event. If the top teams went I think it would clearly be a bigger event than any other event outside our state tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 You really don't want to hear my opinion on it, but here goes... Excited for it, no not at all to me it is nothing more than just another super dual. Our community wouldn't go bezerk for it like if we won an IHSAA state championship or even a sectional championship. The goal for our program is to win conference championships and win IHSAA sectional, regional, semi-state and state. While our daily goal may be to win whatever super dual we are at, that is not our season goal and the end goal we are striving for. On top of that, that weekend is our last free weekend before the state push. I like being able to give the kids that weekend off if we want or having a low key practice to boost morale or fine tune some things. It is also personally my last free weekend until almost May, so I like having it off also. Winning the IHSWCA Super Duper Dual will not get our team picture on the wall in the school, but winning an IHSAA regional title will. Winning regional will get us a parade through downtown on firetrucks, winning the IHSWCA Super Duper Dual will not. Winning the IHSWCA Super Duper Dual will be no different than winning the Al Smith, Traicoff, Connersville, Mater Dei Holiday Classic, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 You really don't want to hear my opinion on it, but here goes... Excited for it, no not at all to me it is nothing more than just another super dual. Our community wouldn't go bezerk for it like if we won an IHSAA state championship or even a sectional championship. The goal for our program is to win conference championships and win IHSAA sectional, regional, semi-state and state. While our daily goal may be to win whatever super dual we are at, that is not our season goal and the end goal we are striving for. On top of that, that weekend is our last free weekend before the state push. I like being able to give the kids that weekend off if we want or having a low key practice to boost morale or fine tune some things. It is also personally my last free weekend until almost May, so I like having it off also. Winning the IHSWCA Super Duper Dual will not get our team picture on the wall in the school, but winning an IHSAA regional title will. Winning regional will get us a parade through downtown on firetrucks, winning the IHSWCA Super Duper Dual will not. Winning the IHSWCA Super Duper Dual will be no different than winning the Al Smith, Traicoff, Connersville, Mater Dei Holiday Classic, etc. Fair enough. I know others feel differenly, others feel the same as you do. One last question for you on this. Seeing that it would have been an optional event that you would have had to apply for do you think you would have applied for it? I mean even if you werent excited for it would you have went to it even though you werent excited for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Not at this time, like I said it is a week off in which we can heal some bumps and bruises and enjoy a weekend with our families. Even if the top teams went, we already see enough of the top teams at the Al Smith, so no reason to have to spend another $500-1000 on a trip for another tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timeinandout Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Not at this time, like I said it is a week off in which we can heal some bumps and bruises and enjoy a weekend with our families. Even if the top teams went, we already see enough of the top teams at the Al Smith, so no reason to have to spend another $500-1000 on a trip for another tournament. Unbelievable! You mean to tell me you could compete in a classed event and you wouldn't show? If the coaches were polled and the majority wanted to see this classed tournament held...would you support it? If you wouldn't, you are nothing more than what you say is wrong with the IHSWCA. You don't know what you want. In my opinion, the coaches that just want the Individual State to determine the champ just don't want to work any harder. There team doesn't have a shot at the individual state crown. They get there one state qualifier every other year and they get to walk around conseco shake some hands and wear the credentials. That is cool with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hawaiian Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Not at this time, like I said it is a week off in which we can heal some bumps and bruises and enjoy a weekend with our families. Even if the top teams went, we already see enough of the top teams at the Al Smith, so no reason to have to spend another $500-1000 on a trip for another tournament. I agree with you that as I see the Hall of Fame Classic as it stands is nothing more than another tourney, but where I do disagree is kids needing a week break to heal bumps and bruises. We will have kids that finish football Thanksgiving weekend and will be at practice the following Monday obviously banged and bruised, but ready the following weekend to wrestle. Do you remenber being a young to mid teen, they heal and recoop pretty quickly, I dont think time off is something that's really needed or detour a team if a way can be found to make this thing a true classed Team State Championship. Just My Opinion.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Unbelievable! You mean to tell me you could compete in a classed event and you wouldn't show? If the coaches were polled and the majority wanted to see this classed tournament held...would you support it? If you wouldn't, you are nothing more than what you say is wrong with the IHSWCA. You don't know what you want. In my opinion, the coaches that just want the Individual State to determine the champ just don't want to work any harder. There team doesn't have a shot at the individual state crown. They get there one state qualifier every other year and they get to walk around conseco shake some hands and wear the credentials. That is cool with them. If the event was put on by the IHSAA we would be right there, instead with it being hosted by the IHSWCA it doesn't mean much to anyone. Our team goals are to win IHSAA events, not to win some random super dual during the season. There is a big difference to it being sanctioned by the IHSWCA and the IHSAA. If we would win this IHSWCA event the trophy would go the same place as the Norwell Super Dual trophy is...which is not in the main display case. Winning IHSAA events is what we strive for, all other events don't mean much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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