indyshred Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 He would have probably been a two time qualifier and probably one time placer in a two classed system. That is based on who was in his weight those two years. That would have made a HUGE difference in him getting noticed by college coaches. Correct me if I'm wrong , but I thought that you have stated several times that its not state placing that colleges look at but National results. You think colleges care about small class placing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Argue with what? The fact that we can't fill up Conseco year and year out? Basketball sells out the finals even for the small school championships. There are eight schools in the basketball finals and they can sell out, yet there are 100+ schools there for wrestling and we can't get over 9000? Why not go with less weight classes to make things even tougher? Why is 14 weight classes some magical correct number, lets go with 10 so we get to see who is closer to the toughest kids in the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong , but I thought that you have stated several times that its not state placing that colleges look at but National results. You think colleges care about small class placing? Yes colleges care about small school state placings. DI schools look for mostly national success for recruits, DII, DIII and NAIA look for state success. When I was in college I would see the coaches with brackets from Michigan, Indiana and Ohio from the previous year with kids highlighted that were returning and in weights they needed. They definitely weren't going all the way back to semi-state to find kids to recruit. Class wrestling will not help or hinder our kids going to the DI level. Class wrestling would help with kids going to the DII, DIII and NAIA levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Since each weight class at state usually has about 4 state qualifiers from small schools, then it is pretty reasonable to suggest that a kid from a small school would place at state if there were two classes. Correct me if I'm wrong , but I thought that you have stated several times that its not state placing that colleges look at but National results. You think colleges care about small class placing? Sigh......never mind.....I give up.....you keep shooting yourself in the foot but ignore the pain. I promised myself I'd never post another thing on a class wrestling thread but I broke that promise. Guess I'm the one shooting themselves in the foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong , but I thought that you have stated several times that its not state placing that colleges look at but National results. You think colleges care about small class placing? Sigh......never mind.....I give up.....you keep shooting yourself in the foot but ignore the pain. Read the post above, but I guess since it doesn't fit your argument you will fail to read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I have said DI colleges look at national placings. Reading comprehension is lacking I understand. Here is your quote: "He would have probably been a two time qualifier and probably one time placer in a two classed system. That is based on who was in his weight those two years. That would have made a HUGE difference in him getting noticed by college coaches." Where does it say DI? And you launching personal attacks again is uncalled for. Everytime you get your tit in a wringer, you do that. Why? Never mind; I know why. Just because you get caught talking from both sides of your mouth is no reason get personal. And that quote was from Indyshred, not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Here is your quote: "He would have probably been a two time qualifier and probably one time placer in a two classed system. That is based on who was in his weight those two years. That would have made a HUGE difference in him getting noticed by college coaches." Where does it say DI? Where does it say only DI? Notice coaches is plural, meaning more than one coach. Are you that naive to think that small college coaches don't start looking at kids their junior year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkraus Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Small college coaches definitely take a look at kids during their junior year I don't know how I feel about the class system. I know if there were a class system in place during my senior year I would have been a state champion. I finished 3rd and the kids who got 2nd and 1st were from Franklin Community and Mishawaka. However, I am happy with the school I attended. On the same token, I made a mistake my junior year and there were not WRESTLE BACKS(haha another debate) so I was knocked out at semi-state. Again with a class system I would have placed considering I lost to a Merrillville kid and I went to New Prairie, which has approximately 850 students at the time. Having a class system for teams is definitely needed though! I am just not sure how I feel individually. I know that small college coaches DO look at kids' junior years, so in terms of the student athlete, it would benefit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartanDog Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Just a thought? What about some that come to mind over that last several years of attending the State Tournament. 1A Turkey Run state champ Ryan Pribble, 2A Union County's Michael Duchworth 1time champ 2 time runner up, and Cody Phillips 2 time champ and 3rd place, Casey Caldwell runner up, Chris Barnhizer 2 time placer. 2A Winchester Chalfant 1 time champ 1 time runner up and 7th place. I am sure there are more but these are the one's I knew right off the top of my head. Seems several small schools have had some good success in the one class system? :-* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Just a thought? What about some that come to mind over that last several years of attending the State Tournament. 1A Turkey Run state champ Ryan Pribble, 2A Union County's Michael Duchworth 1time champ 2 time runner up, and Cody Phillips 2 time champ and 3rd place, Casey Caldwell runner up, Chris Barnhizer 2 time placer. 2A Winchester Chalfant 1 time champ 1 time runner up and 7th place. I am sure there are more but these are the one's I knew right off the top of my head. Seems several small schools have had some good success in the one class system? :-* Can you please be more descriptive with "several?" There are approximately 310 wrestling schools in the state, say 155 of them are small. How many would you consider several that have all this success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartanDog Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Well I would consider 2A a small school so a few more that I can think of are Mr. Howe from 2A Hanover Central (not too bad) Randolph Southern 1A had some place winners Jason Martin and another one that I can't remember the name right now. I would need to pull my programs from previous tourneys. Union County had other placers too that I didn't mention Helton, Rocky Moran, Rushville also had Stewart. If you think you need some more I will pull the archives for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yngskywalker Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 wasn't jason martin also a placer from randolph sothern??? josh's older brother??? ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Well I would consider 2A a small school so a few more that I can think of are Mr. Howe from 2A Hanover Central (not too bad) Randolph Southern 1A had some place winners Jason Martin and another one that I can't remember the name right now. I would need to pull my programs from previous tourneys. Union County had other placers too that I didn't mention Helton, Rocky Moran, Rushville also had Stewart. If you think you need some more I will pull the archives for you? What do you believe the percentage of qualifiers from big schools and small schools is? Is it 50/50, 60/40, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yngskywalker Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 i would ay it would be more close to 60/40 than 50/50! you always seem ot see those rare small schools that have 1 or 2 beasts but than there is always crown point or cathedral or roncalli that usually sends over 4 kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Its actually 75/25 over the past 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yngskywalker Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 i think that centerville also sent acouple people to state several years and they are a 1 or 2a school!! ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yngskywalker Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 i would've guessed less than that but i guess i can see that!! ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I can give you the list of all the small schools that have had kids qualify for state if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yngskywalker Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 yes but for which year??? how many different years are we talking about??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Its actually 75/25 over the past 10 years. That would be pretty good small school percent if we are going off the earlier discussion of total participants. Would seem to me with a number like that the small school individuals may be gaining some steam compared to before that 10 year mark. To help ya out Y2, I'd use the argument about the huge talent drop off of these small schools usually have after the individual state studs. This can be show by the small percentage of their wrestlers competing at the semi-state level. It almost like the team aspect of things could use some ways to grown and improve or something at the small school level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yngskywalker Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 i thought it would be closer but i guess that is not bad for the small schools!! ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartanDog Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 So Howe would have been a 4 timer in a class system. He wouldn't have wrestled Humphrey his freshman year. Do you think he would have gotten a better schollarship? Cody Phillips would be a 3 timer right now. Do you think that would make him a better wrestler? ??? All a class system would do is water down the tourney. You would have some wrestlers get al the way to semi-state and maybe only wrestle 2 or 3 actual the matches do to forfeits. It comes down to this its man on man either you make the grade or you don't! Next door in Ohio do you really think it mattered what class David Taylor wrestled in? Me either ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yngskywalker Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 i'm sad to say that it pronbaly helped cody to lose and taste it so that he won't taste it again!! just a lesson from cutting to much weight!! ;D and idk if howe would've got a better sholarship seeing as that howe is a national champion and and runner up idk how much better you can get?? ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 So Howe would have been a 4 timer in a class system. He wouldn't have wrestled Humphrey his freshman year. Do you think he would have gotten a better scholarship? Cody Phillips would be a 3 timer right now. Do you think that would make him a better wrestler? ??? All a class system would do is water down the tourney. You would have some wrestlers get all the way to semi-state and maybe only wrestle 2 or 3 actual the matches do to forfeits. It comes down to this its man on man either you make the grade or you don't! Next door in Ohio do you really think it mattered what class David Taylor wrestled in? Me either ;D Lets help Y2 out again. I'd argue that while it would water down the competition for the first several years it would eventually prosper to the level of the current one. This would occur as the improved team gains interest from students and more development of the wrestlers. Its almost like if the team is set up in a way to have more success more student will buy into it and program will prosper even further. Man I should have pointed out arguments for the other side earlier on it is more entertaining. But still brings be back to the idea of developing the small school team aspect as so many more longer lasting effect on the school and program long term than the effect of a few individual studs coming through ever will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartanDog Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Lets help Y2 out again. I'd argue that while it would water down the competition for the first several years it would eventually prosper to the level of the current one. This would occur as the improved team gains interest from students and more development of the wrestlers. Its almost like if the team is set up in a way to have more success more student will buy into it and program will prosper even further. Man I should have pointed out arguments for the other side earlier on it is more entertaining. But still brings be back to the idea of developing the teams will have a longer lasting effect than a small school having a few individual studs go through the program. So define prosper? Someone earlier posted that baskeball sells out Conseco. Attendance has died for baskeball since the class system. They moved the finals to the hoosier dome and sold out 42,000 uner a one class system!! Now you are lucky to get 8,000 to 9,000 per session. I have good friend who is a baskeball coach and he said " he likes the fact that his small school has a better chance to advance but it has killed the attendance through the tourney. It's just not the same" :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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