Drooke Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Chris Fleeger, who I presume taught him this move, was disqualified from a match with Andrae Hernandez one time for this same exact move. Instead of presuming you could probably pm him and ask him yourself, as he is on this site almost daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTMF74 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 The kid did an illegal move, deserves to get punished for it. BUUUT if the cathedral kid is to hurt to finish the semi-finals match, then maybe he shouldn't of been aloud to wrestle in the finals. BUUUT you try telling a teenager "you can't wrestle in the finals, you are to hurt," see how that goes. The boo's were pretty bad, but you saw that coming as soon as his hand was raised int he semi's. Bad situation all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckm Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 My question is was it the trainers or his coaches that told him not to continue? I watched the same trainers at the mat where a wrestler fainted and fell to the mat and he continued the match because he wanted to. I would think that if a person fainted and fell to the mat he would not be allowed to continue, because obviously there is something wrong that caused him to just drop to the mat. Also, if the move was illegal why was it not stopped. Vlahos was allowed to do the move while the ref watched and it was not stopped until Willis screamed. So if it was illegal the ref should have blown the whistle well before the injury. That is what the ref is there for. Your question was answered on page five by one of the assistants to the refs supervisor who identified himself by name. Quit questioning the kids integrity and read for Gods sake. > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
army197 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 duck and run you are an idiot saying was fine in the match. that is a definite NO. you could tell the shoulder was bothering him. Sean didnt even attack that arm much and he was still wigglin it trying to get the pain out of it. And to say sean is the most hated in the first place you def shouldnt throw stones if you live in a glass house! you have def become the most hated with your comments towards high schoolers. Sean won his third state title sorry he didnt ride willis the right way and started showing three fingers. He meant nothing towars willis or any of the other competitors. You def show youve never won three or four. Matter of fact prolly not even one. Like i said dont throw stones if you live in a glass house duck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever-it-takes Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 not every wrestler knows every illegal move, and if theyve been allowed to hit it, even a week before at semi state, then whos fault is it? the refs for not calling it in the past? or the kid for not knowing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.bastic Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I have had the unique opportunity to watch the video of the match several times. From what Tom Clark has said as an official telling us all that the move was illegal...Why was it that I counted 16 seconds of Vlahos holding the arm before he made the throw? Why was it that the official didn't stop it? In the rule book it says that the official is suppose to stop a move that could become illegal. This is the job of the official. His job is to PREVENT injuries, so if Willis is really hurt, then he could really push this issue against the official. Also, I do not believe that any doctor would tell a wrestler that he cannot continue and then change his mind the same day. If in fact a doctor told him that he must not continue, then what did the doctor do to help Willis enough to change his mind to allow him to wrestle later that day. I would say that Willis would have something over that doctor as well. I agree that the booing of a high school kid is never appropriate. I don't think that anyone should have booed Willis that is very poor sportsmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever-it-takes Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 hahaha and y2. im not taking anything from anyone.. dont take any of whats said the wrong way the fact is YOU didnt speak with vlahos after his match, and YOU dont know what was going through his mind... yes mcray won.. but vlahos was heartbroken, you would be too... so 3rd is not different than 4th, b/c either way its still losing his goal... it made no difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.bastic Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Also it isn't all adults in the Crowd. even though I was sitting by a couple of chuckle heads who were grown men who were booing a kid but the majority of the Crowd I would say in high school kids. For Laf Harrison to say this is dirty didn't they have a 171 laydown in the ticket rd in 2003(seth parker and rob Whalman match) and wrestle the next round with a band aid on his shoulder I've been attending the Merrillville Semi-State for quite awhile and wasn't there a different coach at Laf. Harrison in 2003? Also, even if it was the same coach, Vlahos would not have been on the same team as Parker if he was wrestling in 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigginhurts Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 not every wrestler knows every illegal move, and if theyve been allowed to hit it, even a week before at semi state, then whos fault is it? the refs for not calling it in the past? or the kid for not knowing? the ultimate responsibility of accepting blame is the kid and the coach. if neither of them knew it was illegal then i would have a serious problem with the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever-it-takes Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 the ultimate responsibility of accepting blame is the kid and the coach. if neither of them knew it was illegal then i would have a serious problem with the coach. and what are your thoughts about refs in the past letting this move be used? he used it at semi state a week before and it was legal.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 hahaha and y2. im not taking anything from anyone.. dont take any of whats said the wrong way the fact is YOU didnt speak with vlahos after his match, and YOU dont know what was going through his mind... yes mcray won.. but vlahos was heartbroken, you would be too... so 3rd is not different than 4th, b/c either way its still losing his goal... it made no difference No you were taking a lot away from a kid that worked his butt off and improved tremendously from last May until today. You discredited his win due to previous victories "due to headlocks." There is a difference between third and fourth place, one kid ended his career with a win, the other did not. Zac won when it mattered and it was in front of 10,000 people, not in front of 50. And no I didn't even speak with Vlahos after his match because he didn't even come shake my hand as he has in the past match-ups with Zac. I guess when he doesn't get his hand raised it means that sportsmanship is optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigginhurts Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 and what are your thoughts about refs in the past letting this move be used? he used it at semi state a week before and it was legal.. i think any ref that let it go needs to learn the rules and especially illegal holds. i don't know vlahos but i would assume that he had no idea it was illegal or else he wouldn't have run it but surely the coach knew it was an illegal hold. and i do think the ref should have stopped it earlier if he had the lock and didn't crank it up right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever-it-takes Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 No you were taking a lot away from a kid that worked his butt off and improved tremendously from last May until today. You discredited his win due to previous victories "due to headlocks." There is a difference between third and fourth place, one kid ended his career with a win, the other did not. Zac won when it mattered and it was in front of 10,000 people, not in front of 50. And no I didn't even speak with Vlahos after his match because he didn't even come shake my hand as he has in the past match-ups with Zac. I guess when he doesn't get his hand raised it means that sportsmanship is optional. i said mcray won... not discreditting him, just standing up for vlahos when people are saying "he lost to mcray and mcmurray beat mcray, so he wasnt good enough to be in the finals" mcray, just like many others, has worked hard to get where he is... and sportsmanship being optional? seems like you are trying to make vlahos sound like hes a bad individual... he lacked sportsmanship... just say that, dont make it sound like when he doesnt get his way then he gets mean and disrespectful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Well considering he would talk to me before they wrestled this weekend like he has in the past, but after Zac beat him he didn't even come shake my hand it makes me wonder if sportsmanship is optional. It is very ironic that after the four previous meetings between the two, which were all Vlahos victories, he came and shook my hand, but in this one match in which he lost he failed to do so. On top of that, I noticed distinctly that he shook the assistant referee's hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grecoref Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I have had the unique opportunity to watch the video of the match several times. From what Tom Clark has said as an official telling us all that the move was illegal...Why was it that I counted 16 seconds of Vlahos holding the arm before he made the throw? Why was it that the official didn't stop it? In the rule book it says that the official is suppose to stop a move that could become illegal. This is the job of the official. His job is to PREVENT injuries, so if Willis is really hurt, then he could really push this issue against the official. Also, I do not believe that any doctor would tell a wrestler that he cannot continue and then change his mind the same day. If in fact a doctor told him that he must not continue, then what did the doctor do to help Willis enough to change his mind to allow him to wrestle later that day. I would say that Willis would have something over that doctor as well. I agree that the booing of a high school kid is never appropriate. I don't think that anyone should have booed Willis that is very poor sportsmanship. Read my post again...it's on page 5. I was not a referee in this match. The match referees described the hold to me. They ruled on it. From their description the action was illegal. This is the 2nd time someone has misquoted me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever-it-takes Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Well considering he would talk to me before they wrestled this weekend like he has in the past, but after Zac beat him he didn't even come shake my hand it makes me wonder if sportsmanship is optional. It is very ironic that after the four previous meetings between the two, which were all Vlahos victories, he came and shook my hand, but in this one match in which he lost he failed to do so. On top of that, I noticed distinctly that he shook the assistant referee's hand. so you are upset he didnt talk to you? He might just be upet b/c everything he worked for his whole life was gone. So give him a little time to cool off, dont take it personally.. maybe he will send you a txt message in a day or 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Vlahos and I crossed ways a few times this weekend and each time he would say hi or even chit chat a little. This was all before him and Zac wrestled. I don't expect him to go out of his way to talk to me, its just that when we have crossed paths he usually says hi or something. I expected a handshake after the match as he did in the prior four meetings between the two. I even waited for this after seeing him shake hands with the assistant referee thinking he was going to head to the corner and he never did. It is very ironic that when he wins, shaking a coaches hand is done without thinking, but when he loses he b-lines it out of the arena. To me that tells you a side of a kid that goes way beyond the mat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duck_and_run Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Can't blame the kid he got cheated out of being under the lights. Did you talk to him after his semi match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 So you are stating that sportsmanship can be optional... I see plenty more boos coming your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever-it-takes Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Vlahos and I crossed ways a few times this weekend and each time he would say hi or even chit chat a little. This was all before him and Zac wrestled. I don't expect him to go out of his way to talk to me, its just that when we have crossed paths he usually says hi or something. I expected a handshake after the match as he did in the prior four meetings between the two. I even waited for this after seeing him shake hands with the assistant referee thinking he was going to head to the corner and he never did. It is very ironic that when he wins, shaking a coaches hand is done without thinking, but when he loses he b-lines it out of the arena. To me that tells you a side of a kid that goes way beyond the mat. Something different between that match and the past ones though... dont you agree? No one can please everyone all the time, like i said dont take it personally, people dont make the best choices when they are emotional, everyone is flawed, even you y2 im sure you havent been a saint 100% of the time either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duck_and_run Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I am saying that there is no way that if McMurray has an illegal hold on McCray, that McCray would use up all the injury time take the win and then go and wrestle in the finals. Who was the poor sport in this situation? Was it Cathedral or Vlahos? I think it was both, but one caused the other. That should count for something. Should Vlahos shake hands with your team? Yes, you guys did nothing wrong. Was he mad about the previous match? Yes absolutly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Something different between that match and the past ones though... dont you agree? No one can please everyone all the time, like i said dont take it personally, people dont make the best choices when they are emotional, everyone is flawed, even you y2 im sure you havent been a saint 100% of the time either Yes something was different, it was the outcome of the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever-it-takes Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Yes something was different, it was the outcome of the match. thats not the point i was making, its the difference between the state tournament, that has like you said 10000 people, and just another tournament, with 50 people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I am saying that there is no way that if McMurray has an illegal hold on McCray, that McCray would use up all the injury time take the win and then go and wrestle in the finals. Who was the poor sport in this situation? Was it Cathedral or Vlahos? I think it was both, but one caused the other. That should count for something. Should Vlahos shake hands with your team? Yes, you guys did nothing wrong. Was he mad about the previous match? Yes absolutly. Sportsmanship should never be optional, not matter how much you feel you have been screwed. If my kid is injured and cannot recover in the two minutes of allotted time, then they will default, there is nothing wrong with that. If he feels he can give it a go in the state championship match and has the doctor's clearance then he would go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 thats not the point i was making, its the difference between the state tournament, that has like you said 10000 people, and just another tournament, with 50 people I would think you would show more sportsmanship with 10,000 people watching than when 50 are watching, but that is just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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