castle reg

[LiSiHi724]

I did not in any way call out coach harmon or his coaching staff. I even agree with them wanting to clear their names. I disagree with the personal attacks. I do not believe this is the venue for the type of comments being made towards Scott.  If you took my post as calling anyone out, I'm sorry. That was not my intent. I felt the remarks made were unprofessional and uncalled for. If my saying that is considered "calling out" Coach Harmon, then I guess I am a hypocrit and in turn just as wrong as the next guy. I just felt I was stating the obvious fact that this is not an appropriate forum for such a discussion. Throughout all of this I have not heard anyone from Reitz claim coach Harmon or any other coach was a cheater or a liar. That being the case, the post by Coach Harmon was unneccessary.  

And to blame Scott or Reitz for what took place is absurd. As I said before, the ruling came from Mr. Cox.

I hope that Coach Harmon and his staff do not take my post as an attack or a "call out." I felt this issue had been taken to an unnecessary extreme and there was some false information flying around.

 

Correct GS, VanHook was 105 even before the official weigh ins. This was confirmed by several.

 

[frigginhurts]

does anyone agree that you can now make weight before the official weigh in, then go take a few drinks of water and be over for the official weigh ins but claim the scales were "screwed up"?  hasn't the precedent been set for this to happen?

 

or better yet, just claim you made weight and that the scales had been tampered with? 

 

i will say this, unless coach ferg actually called out castle coaches or administrators as cheaters, you can't blame him for the decision.  it sounds like the head ref requested mr. evers to make the call to bobby cox. 

[bharmon01]

I'm getting tired of this.

Mr. Fisher,

First The scales were placed in the weigh-in room 30 minutes before weigh-in, not 10 minutes before weigh-in as you state.

This is a fact the scales were in the weigh-in room at 7:30AM.

I ask any coach who wishes to dipute this fact to come forward. We have hosted the Castle Invitational, SIAC, Sectional and Regional tournaments every year since I have been here (26 years). This is not our first time around the block so to say. We know what we are doing and run a great tournament. No one missed weight or questioned a scale at any of these events until Saturday at the Regional, and that was 1 kid out of 112 and 1 coach out of 18 teams.

 

Second You state that you arrived and checked weight. The wrestler in question was .4 over on one scale and not the other. There was no sense of urgency. This is the first time I have heard he was .4 over. Earlier post say right on when he got there and then went and laid around on the mat until weigh-ins. You then stated after you checked weight that you went out and drilled. Which is it?  Did he lay around after weigh-in because he was on as stated earlier or drill because he was .4 over? Was he right on at his weight check or .4 over? If one of my wrestlers was .4 over with less than 10 minutes to weight-in, as you stated the scales were not out until 10 minutes to official weigh-in, I would be very concerned. I would feel a sense of urgency.

 

Third Any time you push the START button on a scale it ZEROs the scale out. Sometimes when you start a scale it will read .1 or 1.1 or -2, you just push start again and it ZEROs out. Anyone around the sport of wrestling knows this. If this is not a true statement then let me know. No one tampered with or readjusted a scale on Saturday at the Castle Regional. When you manipulate the words and say things like "readjust or recalibrate a scale" that makes you think someone cheated. I don't get how you guys don't see that. How about say "they turned the scale on and zeroed it out" like every other Regional in the state on Saturday. Every scale in the state was ZEROed out on Saturday, numerous times. You guys manipulated the words to get what you wanted which was your kid, who failed to make weight on both scales, the chance to wrestle.

Congratulations, job well done.

 

Fourth You say I called Scott Ferguson out? He called Castle High School, my assistant coaches and myself out when he said that the scales had been tampered with. I stated in the coaches meeting that I wanted to go on record that I was not a cheater, never have been a cheater nor ever will be a cheater. Scott sat back and said nothing. Reitz people got on here first and if anyone was reading this they would come to the conclusion that Castle coaches had tampered with or recalibrated the scales. In essence the perception would be we are cheaters. Why do we need to make sure 1 kid doesn't make weight? We advance 13 to the Regional and 11 to Semi-State. We are going to represent the south at Team State why would we ever readjust or recalibrate a scale to make sure 1 kid out of 112 doesn't make weight?

You don't have to like me, I wear my emotions on my sleeve, but I'm not a cheater. I, nor would any of my coaches, ever manipulate a scale or do anything dishonest to try and gain an advantage in the athletic arena.

Bob Harmon

Head Coach Castle High school

2003 IHSWCA Hall of Fame Inductee

[LiSiHi724]

1. We will just have to agree to disagree on the timeline for the scales being placed in the locker room.

 

2. VanHook checked weight on both scales prior to official weigh ins. He weighed 105.4 on one scale and 105 even on the other. You get a step on both for official weigh ins, no need to run or do anything in order to lose the .4 The post about VanHook laying down was not made by me. Most all of our team was jogging, jumping rope, and doing some light drilling right up to 8am. There was never a mention of any of our athletes being over weight at any time.

 

3. I am well aware of how to zero out a scale. You don't need 26 years experience to know that. As for word manipulation, I was not involved in the conversation that took place with several coaches and referees so I can't comment on what that conversation entailed. Nor do I know what was presented to Bobby over the phone.

 

4. I never heard Scott or Reitz claim you had indeed cheated or tampered with the scales. That is exactly what we said at the time of your statement during the coaches meeting. Scott looked at me and said, "Did I ever say anything about him or Castle?" Coach, no blame was ever placed. That conversation was quickly stopped by the AD. The scale issue was not addressed by a Reitz fan. It was started by a fan that heard the rumor floating through the stands. Twigt asked, BB145 replied with what he heard in the stands and it built from there. The only comment Scott made was directed at nutsdad.

 

My point is that we never placed the blame on anyone. I understand this situation rubs a lot of coaches and fans the wrong way and I can't say I  fully agree with the ruling  that was made, but that is no fault of Scott or Reitz. There were several coaches and referees involved in the discussion that I was not a part of. I just know we never placed the blame on your or anyone else and that is why I felt your post directed at Scott was unwarrented.

Coach Harmon, this is not a personal attack between Scott, myself or Reitz wrestling and you and your staff. That is the point I want to get across most.

 

Chase Fisher

Reitz Assistant Wrestling Coach

 

[true fan]

bobby cox needs to do the right thing and not let him wrestle at semi-state and let a alternate move on, as a coach you and your other coaches should of known better when 112 other wrestlers made weight. so to me Ritz and there staff are the true cheaters because you knew this young man should have not been wrestling and at semi and state i will be booing all Ritz wrestlers. not cause of them but cause of the integrity of there coaching staff

[mdupnorth3]

I don't care how you justify your actions but booing the wrestlers is NOT Right!!!

[nutsdad]

I just brought it up here cause it was the big topic of the day, Vanhook is an awesome kid and wrestler and nobody is say'n any diff!!!!!

A guy in the stands was the only one that yelled cheater and he was taken care of right away and I think he was say'n it to the coaches not one of the kids, he was wrong for say'n that in the first place!!! Scott called me out cause I happen to be sit'n close to him!! I have the upmost respect for all wrestlers and coaches and would never have anything to do with what was yelled out by another fan!!!! I even had a conversation about this with Ron Kuhn (Bryan's dad) at the tourney while weigh-ins were going on and he told me Vanhook was over and we talked about  neither one of us want to see a kid put out for that reason!!

[BodyslamU]

True fan, save your boo's for the person that taught you grammer!

[JustWrestle215]

I don't usually let these posts get under my skin, but this topic makes my blood boil.  In my opinion (which no one may care about) Coach Harmon has done nothing wrong, in fact I believe the comments he makes take courage.  I'll pose this to all of you...if he sits idle and does nothing, and lets everyone attack his character then people will just assume the worst about him? Yes or no?

 

 The main reason this offends me is because you are not just attacking this man's character but you are attacking, his family, staff, Caslte High School, and every wrestler that he has coached.  I pride myself on the life lessons that Coach Harmon teaches to myself and his athletes.  

 

It seems as though this issue has no gone to another level in the state and is not the call of the fans.

 

Castle supporters, more than ever, need to right now get behind this man and support him as he leads our student athletes and our community into state.

 

Good Luck

 

Fields

[BodyslamU]

If you read the previous post, I think it's has been stated many times that no one said he cheated. Coach Fisher went to great lengths to make that clear! Once again no one is saying coach Harmon or Castle cheated in any way shape or form! In fact the only person I heard say or yell cheater was a Castle fan at a 15 year old boy!

[outsidersview]

castle fans tend to yell or act in absurd ways from time to time. But hey, they win..

[SlickRodz]

I can't see how the Reitz staff let him wrestle. He did not make weight, 111 wrestlers did! By letting him wrestle Bob Cox made a mistake, but the Reitz staff did the true wrong.  If you are told to do something that is wrong, by an official person, it is still wrong. Bob Cox cannot make this right! It was the responsibility of the Reitz staff to make this right.  He should not move on and an alternate should wrestle.

 

"It is not the mistakes we make in life that mark us as dishonorable, it is how we handle the mistakes".

George C. Patton

 

 

[outsidersview]

I don't care how you justify your actions but booing the wrestlers is NOT Right!!!

 

 

Couldn't agree more

[IUBjj171]

By saying that the scales had been tampered with or something is going on with them that is pretty much thr same as calling him a cheater

 

don't boo them

 

it's simple: if you don't make weight at OFFICIAL weigh ins then you don't wrestle.

Since when is saying you were on earlier make you ok for weight?

[SlickRodz]

 

 

4. I never heard Scott or Reitz claim you had indeed cheated or tampered with the scales. That is exactly what we said at the time of your statement during the coaches meeting. Scott looked at me and said, "Did I ever say anything about him or Castle?" Coach, no blame was every placed. That conversation was quickly stopped by the AD. The scale issue was not addressed by a Reitz fan. It was started by a fan that heard the rumor floating through the stands. Twigt asked, BB145 replied with what he heard in the stands and it built from there. The only comment Scott made was directed at nutsdad.

 

You can't have it both ways, either you justify your wrestler's weight by calling the Castle staff Cheaters, or your wrestler did not make weight and should not have wrestled! 

[Boot]

I don't care how you justify your actions but booing the wrestlers is NOT Right!!!

 

 

Couldn't agree more

 

There are a lot of fans all over the state who could stand to hear that. I've yet to grasp how kids can be so well behaved but it's their parents who need to be more mature.

[Y2CJ41]

Electronic scales have fluctuations and if you are close it may go the other way.  I have personally seed it on our scales when we check a kid's weight.  One moment he will step on, then go pee and gain a tenth or two.

[outsidersview]

You have a very good point nickster. If the opponent is cheap shotting intentionally I think its ok for fans to show their emotion. But many times you can just tell that a wrestler is just being aggressive or getting fusturated. If a wreslter stalls the whole match how do fans tend to react? He is just ''wrestling''

 

Wrestling is an emotional sport and emotion is what makes us love it but lets not forget a little something called CLASS. The ones with it tend to come out on top and if your going to boo lets not make a huge scene about it and try and bring down HIGH SCHOOL KIDS.

 

Unless a kid throws up double fingers or makes obscene jestures at crowds lets try and back off the booing kids just want to win as much as you and me.

[AJ]

This whole thing is CRAZY. 

 

When did it become so easy to complain to Bobby Cox and get what you want? We have been complaining about wrestlebacks for years!!!!!!

 

Well, the young man in question may want to be a few tenths under this week when he weighs in, just to be sure.

[BodyslamU]

Most of you don't know coach Ferguson, because if you did you would never question his character! As any coach he cares deeply for his school, program and most of all his wrestlers. Is he too turn his back on on one of his own? If it were your son or your wrestler would you? I think loyalty is hard to find these days! And I'm proud to have coach Ferguson as the Reitz head coach! People in glass houses should not throw stones! The Refs and the Castle AD made the call because they wanted to cover all the bases. It was explained to Mr. Cox and had the final say! Something must have swayed him one way or the other, so instead of attacking Ferguson, Van Hook or Harmon we should settle down and get all the facts before stringing anyone up in a tree!!!!!!

[SlickRodz]

Most of you don't know coach Ferguson, because if you did you would never question his character! As any coach he cares deeply for his school, program and most of all his wrestlers. Is he too turn his back on on one of his own? If it were your son or your wrestler would you? I think loyalty is hard to find these days! And I'm proud to have coach Ferguson as the Reitz head coach! People in glass houses should not throw stones! The Refs and the Castle AD made the call because they wanted to cover all the bases. It was explained to Mr. Cox and had the final say! Something must have swayed him one way or the other, so instead of attacking Ferguson, Van Hook or Harmon we should settle down and get all the facts before stringing anyone up in a tree!!!!!!

You are correct I do not know him. But don't put this on Bob Cox, the AD or anyone else. He let his wrestler go and he did not make weight. Put myself in his shoes and my son does not wrestle, period!  Problem is we make weight in our program!

[MatChick76]

I had made up my mind to keep my mouth shut on this issue since I was not there, but after reading all of the posts, I find I'm letting my emotions get the better of me.  

 

Although I have never been a huge Coach Harmon fan, I do not doubt his integrity for one minute.  I would never believe that he would intentionally tamper with the official weigh-in scale.  I've been going to Castle for wrestling tournaments most of my life and I've always enjoyed myself (great wrestling...great food...great fans), and NEVER have I heard ANY hint of impropriety with Coach Harmon or his coaching staff about the way a tourney was ran.  I completely understand how he is feeling at this moment, because what he is saying is correct, it is ASSUMED (and we all know what can happen when things are assumed) that Van Hook was overweight, but was allowed to wrestle because there was some "funny business" with the scales.  From Coach Harmon's point of view, it does seem like he's being called a cheater...that's how I would feel too.  BUT...as the poem one of his former wreslters posted tells him...at the end of the day, if he can look at the man in the mirror and know he did nothing wrong, that is truly what matters.

 

Coach Ferguson did what ANY coach would do if his wrestler came to him and told him there was some "funny business" with the scale.  He challenged the weigh in and defended his wrestler - he HAD to. How could Van Hook ever have trusted him again had he not, that's why he calls him Coach - that's the one person  he HAS to be able to rely on during the season to be on his side. The unfortunate fall out from this is that if he does challenge the weigh-in based on "funny business" the Castle coaching staff may be seen to have done something "wrong."

 

My son always seems to be "watching" his weight.  When you're close those pesky little tenths (.1, .2) can cause you some real trouble.  We always try to make sure he is at least .5-.7 under because not all scales are created equal - it's just a fact of wrestling.  Plus, we all know that even if you don't eat or drink anything, the natural settling of your bodily fluids (sorry, I could think of no more polite was to say this) can throw off your weight.  Again, it's just a part of wrestling.

 

None of us will ever know what TRULY happened (we all know is there are 3 sides to every story). The Regional is over, at this point, I don't see how further discussion of the topic can do anything more than continue to create "bad feelings" between the Reitz and Castle wrestling coaches and fans (of which I am neither - until the tournament series - then I'm a champion of all Southern Indiana wrestlers).  I wish all the wrestlers the BEST OF LUCK this week-end at Semi-State...I'll be there watching!!!

 

 

 

 

[BodyslamU]

I hope for your sake Slick you never have to eat those words, cause they would be hard to swallow! And you couldn't resist taking another jab could you, period! If your coach didn't back your wrestlers how many would continue to wrestle for him.......ZERO!!!!!!! You can't turn your back on these kids because you don't have a wrestling program without wrestlers!

 

[AJ]

You have to back your wrestler,I agree.  However, if your wrestler is right on on one scale and .4 over on another then I would also have told him to break a sweat and not let it be close!  HS wrestlers know that digital scales can fluctuate because they way they function. 

 

Did the coach ask if he made sure the scale was zeroed out before he checked his own weight?  Another wrestler could have stepped on before him and not zeroed it out.  There are explanations for what happened that do not lend themselves to anyone cheating or to  a kid not telling the truth.

[SlickRodz]

I hope for your sake Slick you never have to eat those words, cause they would be hard to swallow! And you couldn't resist taking another jab could you, period! If your coach didn't back your wrestlers how many would continue to wrestle for him.......ZERO!!!!!!! You can't turn your back on these kids because you don't have a wrestling program without wrestlers!

 

 

Wrestling is always under the microscope. Our weight classes are what make the sport even. Now we have a situation that if a wrestler misses weight all he has to do is call foul and he gets to wrestle. I have seen situations where 9 or 10 wrestlers have missed weight and the scale is in question and a decision to let them wrestle is made. But to allow one wrestler to go when 111 made weight does not make sence.

 

It sounded sharp to say our program makes weight, I want to explain. We weigh-in 1 hour prior to the official weigh-in, with a coach present. If a wrestler is over they have the time to lose the weight.

 

It does anger me, and I do not agree that a coach MUST back his wrestler. It is a coaches job to teach not only wrestling but teach the right thing to do. In this case it may be hard but the right thing to do is teach that if you don't make weight, you don't wrestle.