castle reg

[coach c]

There has to be more to the story. I wasn't even there for weigh-ins but have heard more than Van Hook was over. North had a wrestler over and a few others we heard this afternoon. Something had to make Bobby Cox step in more than a Reitz coach being upset because his wrestler was over. What I would like to know is why were the scales even touched by the host school this morning? That is what should be questioned. They had to of played with them or Cox never lets him wrestle. Just my two cents and I'm sure someone knows more and will explain. I totally agree if he was over then he shouldn't of wrestled. No exceptions to that rule I'm sure. In my opinion fans should know what really happened, because it is awful to spread rumors when we all don't really know. Hopefully there will be an explanation to this weigh-in. As long as I can remember no one was allowed to wrestle if they were over. What would make Bobby Cox change his mind? And I can tell you Coach Ferg doesn't have that kind of pull from up North.

 

I can assure you that North did NOT have anyone over weight or even within .7 of being overweight.  So please don't deflect any of this conversation towards my

(or any other) wrestlers direction.  As it has been stated 111 wrestlers made weight without even having to challenge on the 2nd scale.  I was in the weigh in when this occured and was standing with Coach Ferguson, Coach Mastison and others and was there when the discusion began with the referee, but as they say I had no reason to agree or disagree with their conversation.  I was asked if our 103 was there or if he could make weight since he was the alternate from the Central Sectonal and my answer was that he was not there and I don't know if he could make weight.  

I usually don't comment on this board that often but I don't want anyone to have to accuse someone else's team or wrestlers when the only blame ultimatly falls with the IHSAA and their "decision"  that was described as "final".

 

Jamie Crow, Head Wrestling Coach Evansville North

 

[Cover2]

When you get all you want and you struggle for pelf,

and the world makes you king for a day,

then go to the mirror and look at yourself

and see what that man has to say.

 

For it isn't your mother, your father or wife

whose judgment upon you must pass,

but the man, whose verdict counts most in your life

is the one staring back from the glass.

 

He's the fellow to please,

never mind all the rest.

 

For he's with you right to the end,

and you've passed your most difficult test

if the man in the glass is your friend.

 

You may be like Jack Horner and "chisel" a plum,

And think you're a wonderful guy,

But the man in the glass says you're only a bum

If you can't look him straight in the eye.

 

You can fool the whole world,

down the highway of years,

and take pats on the back as you pass.

 

But your final reward will be heartache and tears if you've cheated the man in the glass.

 

 

Thanks Coach Harmon for the life lessons.  Keep on molding men.

[boilergrappler]

Sorry coach c. I did remove it to kill anymore rumors. Rumors and stories were being made all day about the incident. I didn't mean to divert the conversation towards anyone else. After reading more tonight, most everything that the fans in the stands heard sounds like it isn't true. Fans spoke of it from both sides of the gym. Curious thing though. I'm going with Grap41 's  grassy knoll instead of the book  depository conspiracy theory.

[IUBjj171]

When you get all you want and you struggle for pelf,

and the world makes you king for a day,

then go to the mirror and look at yourself

and see what that man has to say.

 

For it isn't your mother, your father or wife

whose judgment upon you must pass,

but the man, whose verdict counts most in your life

is the one staring back from the glass.

 

He's the fellow to please,

never mind all the rest.

 

For he's with you right to the end,

and you've passed your most difficult test

if the man in the glass is your friend.

 

You may be like Jack Horner and "chisel" a plum,

And think you're a wonderful guy,

But the man in the glass says you're only a bum

If you can't look him straight in the eye.

 

You can fool the whole world,

down the highway of years,

and take pats on the back as you pass.

 

But your final reward will be heartache and tears if you've cheated the man in the glass.

 

 

Thanks Coach Harmon for the life lessons.  Keep on molding men.

still have that on a piece of paper by my desk

 

What is a kid going to say when he goes in to weigh in and is over? He will probably look at his coach and say "But i was spot on when we got here"

 

Its BS and if the kid is over then the kid is over and he has to deal with not keeping his weight in control. Maybe next time not cut it so close. Give yourself a .5 margin just in case.

 

ANYONE attacking the integrity of Coach Harmon or any of the assistants at Castle must have hit their head or something. They teach nothing but doing the right thing and being honest. THEY WOULD NEVER TAMPER WITH SCALES!!!!!! They do whats right and their are plenty of wrestlers and coaches that will vouch for their character.

 

William Gaylord

 

 

[nutsdad]

I started a new post about this but it got taken off...probably bc I titled ii "boneheads at the Castle Regional".

 

It turns out that some brainiac keyed the car of a Reitz parent on 3 sides. Not sure why they did this and I can tell you that his name is not "Richard".

I just so happens that Castle has cameras on the outside of the the school. The truck was in view of one of these cameras.

 

So if the brainiac who did this is reading this GUESS WHAT.... I think next weekend you will talking to the Sheriffs dept in Warrick County instaed of watching some great wrestling at Roberts Stadium.

 

GEE.....you are pretty smart.....we dont need your kind in wrestling...GO AWAY!!!  I dont care what school your are from...you are TRASH dude...or dudette

 

??? ??? ???

 

That was very uncalled for!!

I hope they get who it was!!!

[fatback74]

All Bobby Cox did was allow rules to be changed,  ???Coach Ferguson you should have sent your boy home packing,  it is your responsibility as a coach to make sure your wrestlers are on weight, to say someone adjusted the scales is a cop out,  you better check or change his body fat papers because it will be called out this week. Bobby Cox if you see this, you need to do the right thing and send the Gibson Southern boy to Semi-State instead of the Reitz boy. You were missinformed to what happened. The scales were zeroed out for TARE weight. Do the right thing, or this rule is out the damn window. every weigh in will have to have someone from weights and measures there.

[firegrappler]

The rule book and the state go in to great detail as to the weigh-in process, and yesterday's fiasco will only cause greater complication.  As I recall, "Official" weigh-in is when all wrestlers are called to the secured weigh-in area, and when an official is standing at the scale to validate the weight at that moment in time for that weight class.  Kid makes weight he wrestles.  It is not official when kids come in and check weight prior to and other wrestlers and/or coaches are looking over their shoulders.  Prior to the "official" weigh-in how many more kids have checked their weight- step on, step off, step on, step off, etc?  I am told the scales were moved in the weigh-in area to make it more organized for the "official" weigh in.  Now.  How many times have wrestlers//coaches seen .2-.5 fluctuations both +/- from when a kid checked weight?  I know I've seen it, because the repeated checks, and even when a scale is moved it can change a bit.  And if this is considered "tampering", I'm not buying it.  It happens like this every Saturday. Here's my question?  Why would a wrestler want to be spot on?  When my son wrestled, he and I wanted him .3 at least under at our school to make sure he accounted for any fluctuations, and yes scales do fluctuate.  He wanted to leave no doubt because of these flucutations we all experience.  As to the future,  I guess the IHSAA will have to  provide the scales and they must be secured at all times, just like at State, or hey we weigh-in our kids and fax them in on Friday and everyone trust they are legit.  If there was no question as to the integrity of our coaches or sport then we wouuld allow this, instead we have(or did have) "official" weigh-ins to remove that challange of integrity.  At least for the rest of the year or until more rules are sent down from the state  " the someone tampered with scale " excuse is in play because precedence has been set.  Nutsdad  hey I know you want to speek your peace on here, but you need to bite your tongue  when these issues so close to your son come about.  Let hhis wrestling do the talking.  Someone accused my son of being one of the dirtiest wrestlers he'd ever seen, and I bit my tongue when he was still wrestling.  

Ken Zuber

Memorial Bus Driver

[Jon H]

I don't know any of the details other than what I've read on this thread.  I usually have a joke or 2 included in my posts but it doesn't seem appropriate.  I just have 2 statements.

 

1.  This could have been prevented by a simple "No" reply from the commissioner.  Most, if not ALL, of the area coaches will argue that coach Ferguson should have prevented it in the first place.  

2.  With the harsh words fired back and forth between coaches, Southern Indiana wrestling will never be the same.   These words go much deeper than a simple disagreement.  

 

Jon Houchins

Wrestling Fan

[justaconcernedad]

I fine it hard to believe that they would let him wrestle, if you are over weight you don't wrestle. The rules are made and EVERYONE must abide by them. A few weeks ago the question was raised regarding a  wrestlers alfa weight and he weighed in below that and the coach was suspended. It seems that there are double standards in use. It seems that a precedent  was been set and anybody will be able to contest the scales. What is the difference if you are .3 pounds over or under or 30 pounds over or under. Lets not change things in the middle. Rules are Rules!!!! Let's make sure EVERYONE FOLLOWS them!!!!!

[529]

I agree Jon  H.  There has always been high respect amomg wrestlers and coaches,  way after high school. 

 

Let's keep it that way.

 

Bob harmon if you have an issue call Scott Ferguson don't air it out on a public forum.

 

 

We are supposed to be supporting each other at semi state.

 

 

[frigginhurts]

I'll have to agree with coach harmon...this guy, his assistants, nor anyone at castle would ever cheat.  VanHook may be telling the truth, he quite possibly could have been spot on when he checked his weight but maybe he did something that made him go over.  or maybe the scale was moved and changed a few tenths but it had nothing to do with someone cheating. 

the bottom line is that he was over on both scales and he shouldn't have been allowed to compete. 

 

[frigginhurts]

529 - i believe it was bob harmon that was called out first.

[digem]

I agree that Harmon should handle this better.  There is some irony in folks praising his ability to teach life skills and praising his integrity.  Seems he missed a perfect opportunity to represent his school in a more professional manner, and certainly to show his young athletes how this should have been handled.  Calling someone out on this board in the manner that he did is just about as idiotic as some of the fans behavior in the crowds.  Just my two cents.  

[BlueBolt]

First...And Most Importanty, GREAT DAY OF WRESTLNG!

 

The Castle Regional has long been teh Standard for tough passage to Semistate and this one was no different than the past!   We are sending some really great repreentativs to Roberts next weekend and are proud of ALL who wrestled yesterday.

 

For those who know me, you know I will bleed Blue and Gold until the day I die.   I go all the way back to the Marc Anderson days of Castle Wresting.   Bob Harmon became teh head coach my Senior year and I will say this without flinching, Coach Harmon kept myself, and many others in school - much less on the mat .  His CONSISTENT message to the kids he coaches has ALWAYS been INTEGRITY, HARDWORK, and LEAVING IT ALL ON THE MAT.   He has ALWAYS taught his wrestlers tht you get 1 or 2 pounds under and STAY THERE.   Not always the easiet thing in the world to get a kid to do, but it eliminates this sort of isue usually.

 

I wasn't there for this drama, but I have to say I am disheartened by the events that have reared their ugly head in all this.   Reitz Wrestling has always been a respected "Brand" if you will in the state as has Castle Wrestling.   NEITHER has any need to cheat or to play fsst and lose with the rules to win.   In my day, if you showed up over, you were running and wrestling with 4 drill partners until you hit the weight and THEN you wrestled your day.   The fact this invidual was less than a pound over SHOULD NOT have been this hard to have corrected in the old school ways I mentioned above.   WHY was this an issue at all?   I certainly hope his coaches have sat this young man down and impressed upon him that he is a Talented Wrestler who has a bright future in front of him, but he has to beat the same opponants EVERYONE has to, and that includes the scale on Saturday morning.  

 

Much respect to all.   But this is REDICULOUS to even consider.   Bob Harmon and the coaching staff at Castle have NEVER given me a reason to believe they don't want to compete with the VERY BEST.   But EVERYONE has to meet the requirements of the sport.  I am afraid what the true message to all of this is we have now opened the door to a lesson for the young people that the rules of our sport are not for everyone, and can be bent, folded, and mutilated based on who wants to yell the loudest.  I always thought wrestling was conducted on the mat, and honestly you can' step on teh mat without clearing the scale first.        

 

Rob Shaw

 

 

 

 

   

[jslsrhs607]

I agree Jon  H.  There has always been high respect amomg wrestlers and coaches,  way after high school.  

 

Let's keep it that way.

 

Bob harmon if you have an issue call Scott Ferguson don't air it out on a public forum.

 

 

We are supposed to be supporting each other at semi state.

 

I couldn't agree more.  I keep hearing "say it on public forum"  I never seen a post where Coach Ferguson called you cheater.  

 

On another note, Reitz did have a wrestler a few years ago who was a tenth or two over (at regionals) and Coach Ferguson told him his season was over. If there wasn't something in question yesterday then i'm sure Coach Ferguson wouldn't have brought it up. Of all the rumors I heard yesterday (there were plenty)  I never heard one that said Coach Harmon or any of his staff were cheaters.

 

I think a phone call between you two is needed.

[bharmon01]

When Scott Ferguson protested the weigh in and said he had 4 witnesses that the scale had been tampered with then you are calling us cheaters. I didn't put this on here first. If you read on this forum the scales had been tampered with by the coaches then what conclusion would you come to? You would think somebody is a cheater. When Scott Ferguson went to Mr. Evers and protested it he was in essence calling someone at Castle a cheater. When Mr. Evers called Bobby Cox, it became a public forum. What do you think Bobby Cox of the IHSAA thinks? That someone from Castle's coaching staff tampered with the scale? In essence we were being called a cheater again. We are only refering to one scale, he still didn't make weight on the other one, that fact has been lost in all of this.  Anyone who read this before I made my statement would think that we had tampered with the scale so only one kid out of 112 didn't make weight. Reitz made it a public forum yesterday morning. Everyone in the gym was talking about it. Everyone was wondering if the scales had been tampered with, which in essence is saying someone at the host school had tampered with the scale.

If anyone says the scales were tampered with you are in essence calling my staff or me a cheater. This is a life lesson that sometimes when things don't go your way some people will resort to any means to get what they want no matter what the consequences.

The integrity and character of Castle High School, my coaching staff and myself have been questioned.

I got on here only after this was brought up by somebody else and those uninformed were going to draw the conclusion that someone at Castle must have tampered with the scale so only one kid wouldn't make weight.. My only intention is to defend my school and the integrity of the sport of wrestling.

Bob Harmon

[digem]

Let me try to sort through all of the "intentions, passive aggressive bs, name-calling, paranoia, etc" and look at what appear to be the facts.

1.  Reitz kid shows up and is on weight on one scale. 

2.  Him being on weight was witnessed by other wrestlers and coaches

3.  Prior to the official weight in the scale was altered by someone at Castle

4.  The reitz kid did not make weight due to the change

5.  Reitz protests this and the CASTLE AD talks with the state

6.  The state says let him wrestle due to the scale being altered

7.  Kid wrestles and gets second

 

I don't see where the "drama" is with this.  Reitz defended their wrestler, and the state made the decision.  I don't see any name calling just addressing the issue that occurred.  This could have all been prevented by having the scales ready when the teams arrived.  The rest of this drama seems like some personal issues.  Just my two cents

[jslsrhs607]

I agree with the scales should have been ready or put in their place at the begining of the day.  If he tought he was on weight (he did) then there is no reason for him to try to lose a couple of tenths before official weigh in.

 

I don't agree with # 3.  I and many others don't think that Harmon or any of his staff altered the scales. Moving it (for room) may have changed it a couple of tenths but i don't think it was intentional for the scale to change by any means. Most coaches can put themselves in this situation and they would have done the same for their wrestler.

[digem]

I should clarify my point 3. 

I had read that the scale was zeroed prior to the official weigh in.

I was simply stating that and did not intend or imply that someone had did it maliciously.  Notice I did not use the word "tamper"

 

I think people are putting their personal spin on all of this and that is where this thing has turned way wrong, and it is sad to see.  I was trying to just look at facts.

[mtv2112]

Let me try to sort through all of the "intentions, passive aggressive bs, name-calling, paranoia, etc" and look at what appear to be the facts.

1.  Reitz kid shows up and is on weight on one scale.  

2.  Him being on weight was witnessed by other wrestlers and coaches

3.  Prior to the official weight in the scale was altered by someone at Castle

4.  The reitz kid did not make weight due to the change

5.  Reitz protests this and the CASTLE AD talks with the state

6.  The state says let him wrestle due to the scale being altered

7.  Kid wrestles and gets second

 

I don't see where the "drama" is with this.  Reitz defended their wrestler, and the state made the decision.  I don't see any name calling just addressing the issue that occurred.  This could have all been prevented by having the scales ready when the teams arrived.  The rest of this drama seems like some personal issues.  Just my two cents

 

Digem,

 

You state that the scale was altered as if it was fact.  It is not a fact.  You state it as a fact in order to bring it as a fact to influence others.  There has not been one shred of proof that there was any altering or tampering.  The Reitz coaching staff did what they felt they had to do to get their wrestler on the mat.  You may support what they did, you may be disgusted by it.

 

Some questions:  Coach Harmon has stated that he wouldn't know how to tamper with the scales.  He has been accused of such by Reitz.  Does the coaching staff at Reitz know how to tamper with the scales?  Do they know that it is possible?  How do they suppose that this tampering occurred?  I guess some people go with guilty until proven innocent.

[meto]

i call bull crap y was he the only one that it affected, if the scales were off three tenths then there would of been several wrestlers miss weight

[digem]

[The scale in question was ZEROED OUT, let me repeat the SCALE IN QUESTION WAS ZEROED OUT,the second scale ( the scale not in question) the kid missed weight by 3 tenths.]

 

Coach Harmon wrote that and it to me it reads as if someone altered the scale or zeroed it out.  I again did not state that it was tampered with, or any way imply that it was malicious. 

[bigb70]

,........all the kids that wrestled did a great job,it was a great day of wrestling,Good luck to all that are on there way to Roberts.                                                                              I will be cheering for all from this reg.

[mtv2112]

i call bull crap y was he the only one that it affected, if the scales were off three tenths then there would of been several wrestlers miss weight

 

Couldn't agree more.  The "eye-witness" accounts are suspect at best.  People only remember what they want to remember.  No one that might have watched this kids unofficial weigh-in was watching it and thinking it was important to remember every detail.  We don't know that maybe the kid wasn't thinking and took a drink or something between his unofficial and official weigh-in.  Think how embarrassing that would be.  Wouldn't you have a hard time telling your coach about that.  Not saying that it happened, but much more likely than any altering or tampering.  Maybe he taped something up or something like that added some weight.

 

By the way, altering and tampering are the same in this case.  Both require the intervention by a person to change a previous setting.  So don't hide behind this b.s. that you didn't say tampering.  Both mean someone did something wrong.

 

I don't know what kind of weighing technology that these scales use, but some weighing systems can be affected by temperature, humidity, or some other environmental factor.  Things that are more likely than someone "altering" the scale.

[IUBjj171]

[The scale in question was ZEROED OUT, let me repeat the SCALE IN QUESTION WAS ZEROED OUT,the second scale ( the scale not in question) the kid missed weight by 3 tenths.]

 

Coach Harmon wrote that and it to me it reads as if someone altered the scale or zeroed it out.  I again did not state that it was tampered with, or any way imply that it was malicious. 

Well no crap it was ZEROED OUT!!!! it's a little freaking button that you hit for if the wrestler before you steps off and it reads 0.1 instead of 0.0. The scale is probably rezeroed about 30 times whileweighing in 111 wrestlers.

 

They are accusing that someone moved the scale and changed te calibration which would void it's certification by the county. Also it's probably pretty hard the change te calibration so many would see it. And MANY WRESTLERS WOULD HAVE BEEN OVER!!

 

Sorry but coach Harmon is in the right. I wasn't there but it sounds more and more like this has been started by reitz and if someone attacks his character publicly then he can defend his character.