NCWrestlefan Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Do you think a kid in Ohio that wins a DII state championship feels any different than the kid that wins the DI championship or DIII championship? I think they should wrestle each other at the end of it to determine a true overall Champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreparetoWin Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Do you think a kid in Ohio that wins a DII state championship feels any different than the kid that wins the DI championship or DIII championship? Back in the day, I guess I wouldve wanted to know I was the best...in the state at any level. Maybe other people or different and thats ok. I just wanted to know where I stood and how much more it was gonna take to get me to be the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 I live in a watered down reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Do any state class team, but not individual competition? Back to what I said, in New Jersey they have the same number of schools as we do. The smallest is 161 students, while the biggest is 3142 students. In Indiana it is 55 students and 4495 students. The standard deviation in New Jersey is 440, in Indiana it is 704. Meaning the variation of students in New Jersey is a lot less than in Indiana. Here is another breakdown of schools broken off in 500 increments. Indiana 0-500 83 26.86% 501-1000 109 35.28% 1001-1500 52 16.83% 1501-2000 33 10.68% 2000+ 32 10.36% New Jersey 0-500 46 14.89% 501-1000 142 45.95% 1001-1500 88 28.48% 1501-2000 24 7.77% 2000+ 9 2.91% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreparetoWin Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 I think they should wrestle each other at the end of it to determine a true overall Champ. Then you might get into the discussion of what about the kid who finished 2nd or 3rd might be able to beat the champs of another class...this is why I dopnt like classing individual sports. but that is just opinion and probably not a popular one...but its mine lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Back in the day, I guess I wouldve wanted to know I was the best...in the state at any level. Maybe other people or different and thats ok. I just wanted to know where I stood and how much more it was gonna take to get me to be the best. Again, do you think state champions in the smallest class in Ohio feel shamed or pity that they are state champions in the smallest class? Do you think their communities celebrate their championships any differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Again, do you think state champions in the smallest class in Ohio feel shamed or pity that they are state champions in the smallest class? Do you think their communities celebrate their championships any differently? No, but I think the state champ from one class would sure as heck like to step up and prove themselves against the champs from another class to see where they stand overall in the individual side of things. Only time I'm dragging myself into this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreparetoWin Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 good info Y2k...what I see is a state series with 3 classes- small- 27% Medium- 36% Large- 37% Again just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreparetoWin Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 No, but I think the state champ from one class would sure as heck like to step up and prove themselves against the champs from another class to see where they stand overall in the individual side of things. Only time I'm dragging myself into this one. Exactly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 good info Y2k...what I see is a state series with 3 classes- small- 27% Medium- 36% Large- 37% Again just a thought The IHSAA classes sports by an even breakdown, so if there were 3 classes, 33.3% of the schools would be in each class. If you want to see even more damning evidence, here is a link to the statistics of state qualifiers the past 11 years by classification. http://indianamat.com/stuff/proof2009.html Just a couple notes 73.86% of the state qualifiers are from schools in upper half of enrollment 57.86% of the state qualifiers are from the schools in the upper 33% of enrollment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreparetoWin Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 The IHSAA classes sports by an even breakdown, so if there were 3 classes, 33.3% of the schools would be in each class. If you want to see even more damning evidence, here is a link to the statistics of state qualifiers the past 11 years by classification. http://indianamat.com/stuff/proof2009.html Just a couple notes 73.86% of the state qualifiers are from schools in upper half of enrollment 57.86% of the state qualifiers are from the schools in the upper 33% of enrollment good stuff...you have seen alot of discussion and have alot of information...I would really like to hear your opinion on this topic. Which side of the fence do you sit on? Have you seen any viable solutions that would be good for indiana? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash513 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 good stuff...you have seen alot of discussion and have alot of information...I would really like to hear your opinion on this topic. Which side of the fence do you sit on? Have you seen any viable solutions that would be good for indiana? NOOOOOOOOO!!!... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankingsGuy Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 my only question is then.. what are these small programs that are getting double digit state qualifiers over the last ten years (the exceptions to the rule) doing that the other small schools are not doing? lets take a closer look at teams like adams central, bluffton, and especially winamac and delphi because they have double digit qualifiers out of the merrillville semi state.. i'm sure they have an established youth program, and have a lot of out of season camps and regular training sessions and are taught by knowledgable coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 good stuff...you have seen alot of discussion and have alot of information...I would really like to hear your opinion on this topic. Which side of the fence do you sit on? Have you seen any viable solutions that would be good for indiana? I will keep this short. I think in order for the betterment of the sport it would be beneficial to go to classes for both the team an individual series. As a fan and competitor I would want nothing more than single class, but as a coach and someone that wants the sport to progress I feel that we need classes. The small school programs in the state are struggling and it will not get any better any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 The IHSAA classes sports by an even breakdown, so if there were 3 classes, 33.3% of the schools would be in each class. If you want to see even more damning evidence, here is a link to the statistics of state qualifiers the past 11 years by classification. http://indianamat.com/stuff/proof2009.html Just a couple notes 73.86% of the state qualifiers are from schools in upper half of enrollment 57.86% of the state qualifiers are from the schools in the upper 33% of enrollment Let's not get too crazy with the numbers here! These percentages are deceiving... What percent of the total school population qualified from each school (big & small). If I combine several small HS together to equal the population of one of the large HS do the percentages look the same or not? Let me try that a different way, if for every 1,000 kids x-amount qualify, then a big school would understandably qualify more than a school with 300. Likewise, if I only have 300 students I would have to qualify a whole team to make your percentages look 'equal'. Does anyone get what I am saying here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Let's not get too crazy with the numbers here! These percentages are deceiving... What percent of the total school population qualified from each school (big & small). If I combine several small HS together to equal the population of one of the large HS do the percentages look the same or not? Let me try that a different way, if for every 1,000 kids x-amount qualify, then a big school would understandably qualify more than a school with 300. Likewise, if I only have 300 students I would have to qualify a whole team to make your percentages look 'equal'. Does anyone get what I am saying here? How many kids per team qualify for sectional each year? Are small schools equal to the big schools? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Let's not get too crazy with the numbers here! These percentages are deceiving... What percent of the total school population qualified from each school (big & small). If I combine several small HS together to equal the population of one of the large HS do the percentages look the same or not? Let me try that a different way, if for every 1,000 kids x-amount qualify, then a big school would understandably qualify more than a school with 300. Likewise, if I only have 300 students I would have to qualify a whole team to make your percentages look 'equal'. Does anyone get what I am saying here? If you are saying school population has a factor in how many kids qualify for state, isn't that a reason to vote for class wrestling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 No... What I am saying is that take the school name off for a second and look at the overall percentage of the population that will qualify statistically (can't you hear people logging off already ). If the STATISTICS show that on average only 1 out of 1,000 will qualify then why would it be a surprise that school X of 100 students doesn't get a ticket to the big dance every year and school XX of 2,200 sends a van full. Am I making this better or worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 No... What I am saying is that take the school name off for a second and look at the overall percentage of the population that will qualify statistically (can't you hear people logging off already ). If the STATISTICS show that on average only 1 out of 1,000 will qualify then why would it be a surprise that school X of 100 students doesn't get a ticket to the big dance every year and school XX of 2,200 sends a van full. Am I making this better or worse? The percentage of students at schools in the bottom half of enrollment is 24%, top half 76%. Are you stating that because 76% of the students in the state are at big schools, they should have 76% of the state qualifiers? To me if you are stating that, you are telling me enrollment at the schools matter in terms of being a state qualifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phscoach Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Again, do you think state champions in the smallest class in Ohio feel shamed or pity that they are state champions in the smallest class? Do you think their communities celebrate their championships any differently? Do you think they hold the same respect in their state's wrestling community? Does a small school champ demand the same attention from college coaches that a big school champ does? As an example, one of the comments was about Jimtown's "developmental football league championships". The general consensus that I perceive in our football community is that the 1A, 2A, and maybe even 3A state championships are considerably less impressive than 4A and 5A. Football recruiters will scour the rosters of 5A schools and 1-3A rosters have to send their kids info out just for the schools to acknowledge their existence even though the athlete may be even or better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Placing at state in a lower division(s) will get college coaches attention, but what really gets their attention is impressive performances at national tournaments like Fargo, NHSCA nationals, USAW Nationals, etc. I will use this as an example: I had two kids, same grade level both accomplish two great feats as sophomores. One was a state qualifier, the other placed at Fargo, but was only a two time regional qualifier at that point. Guess who got a letter from a DI school? Yes, the 2x regional qualifier because he placed at a national tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 The percentage of students at schools in the bottom half of enrollment is 24%, top half 76%. Are you stating that because 76% of the students in the state are at big schools, they should have 76% of the state qualifiers? To me if you are stating that, you are telling me enrollment at the schools matter in terms of being a state qualifier. Alright, now we have struck pay dirt. If lightening was going to hit 1/2,000 people this year. I would expect that students who attend Merriville HS would have a greater chance of being at risk than those who attend Triton HS. Now, add to that, big school means bigger budget for lightening rods and we even got Ben Franklin on staff... alright, nevermind! I don't mean any disrespect, I have a cousin who did very well at a small school b/c he liked wrestling. I tend to find way more evidence that wrestling is up to the individual than the size of the room or the list of names on the roster. Does anybody know any transfers who are experiencing some disappointment at their 'new' school this year? Does anyone know of a team (big or small) that has only one or two stars? Should we make class assignments by the credentials of the practice room? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Grades had nothing to do with it? I think he was specifically referring to the wrestling component of the scouting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Jitmown 138, Grades were not a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phscoach Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Placing at state in a lower division(s) will get college coaches attention, but what really gets their attention is impressive performances at national tournaments like Fargo, NHSCA nationals, USAW Nationals, etc. I will use this as an example: I had two kids, same grade level both accomplish two great feats as sophomores. One was a state qualifier, the other placed at Fargo, but was only a two time regional qualifier at that point. Guess who got a letter from a DI school? Yes, the 2x regional qualifier because he placed at a national tournament. Fair enough, but you never actually answered my question. Any relation to the late Johnnie Cochran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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