ontherise219 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I'm not going to point fingers. But 1 coaching staff seamed to voice thier opinion more than others and in a not so suttle way. I was wondering how much a offical would take before he was to take a team point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedsister Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I think a coach has a right to blow up when an official calls a pin, then takes it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinedad Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Called a pin, then took it back? Can you even do that? I mean if the time is close and the table informs him that the time ran out, otherwise, is that even possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedsister Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 He hit the mat then waived it off - it was very weird. It was Roach's match - like he wasn't going to win anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanMcMurray Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Team points? He has only decisioned that kid twice... Roach is a stud and we knew he would win... But we wanted to win as a team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptownfan Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 He hit the mat then waived it off - it was very weird. It was Roach's match - like he wasn't going to win anyways. I don't think he ever hit the mat! His hand went up then never hit the mat! But that was just my observation... Probably a little biased too! But I do want to wish the cp wrestlers luck at center grove! And in sean mcmurrays quote from last year "the giants beat the patroits!" Anything is possible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire77 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 i have been in the stands when a pin was taken back, and the coach did get annoyed but i think any coach would. NOT this year just to clarify so it has happened before. people make mistakes. i would guess that if an offical called a pin and then took it back he might expect to hear about it so unless the coach crossed the line nothing would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobra413 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 At what point do you take a team point when the CP coaches are constantly coming on the mat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontherise219 Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 I wasn't even talking about the Roach vs Santos match. But that was a little over Dramatic With Coach Rodriguez Throwing his water bottle down and both of them in the refs face. I feel they were right on that call the ref was in the act of calling a fall when Santos rolled out. I'm talking about being in the Refs face and running on the mat for every call against Merrillville and before anyone says it I did think Halsted had back points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macdaddy Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Just my opinion, but the Ref's lost control of the Portage-Crown point match. We knew that CP would win (it's a given that are way more talented), but they allowed Vlink & Rodriquez to come out on the mat and influence calls in a dual that they were already winning & big. I lost track of how many times the CP coaches were on the mat or at the table complaining. And in the end CP would have still won even if they would have not cried to the officials. I couldn't believe a powerhouse team like that was so "winey" over every little thing. The official's should have taken control. The results would have been the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirates rule Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 the refs lost control totally, they must have been from Chicago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinedad Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Not knowing the situation, I have no way of knowing what took place to get this thread started, so I will not speak to any specifics about that. This is just an observance from past meets that I have been involved in. The fans want the opposing coach hit everytime they step to the table because he/they are whining. If it is their coach that is going to the table, they are fine with it, because the coach is fighting for their kids. Here in central Indiana, we have a few coaches that are very good at working the refs, and some that are not. Are the coaches that work the refs obnoxious, yes, do those coaches go over the line, yes, should the refs hit them with a team point, again yes, but only if you are not part of that team would you feel this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAncientElder Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Ask Merrillville. They managed to do it at their own Semi-State last year. TheAncientElder (TAE) The Imperial Potentate and Grand Poobah of Classless wrestling in Indiana. I wear my Fez with pride. www.theancientelder.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Correct me if I am wrong Portage fans, but you guys had a coach that is/was famous for working the refs when you guys were sending tons of kids downstate. Congrats CP! However, I hope our region is well represented at state this year by all these great wrestlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regionrat1 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Just my opinion, but the Ref's lost control of the Portage-Crown point match. We knew that CP would win (it's a given that are way more talented), but they allowed Vlink & Rodriquez to come out on the mat and influence calls in a dual that they were already winning & big. I lost track of how many times the CP coaches were on the mat or at the table complaining. And in the end CP would have still won even if they would have not cried to the officials. I couldn't believe a powerhouse team like that was so "winey" over every little thing. The official's should have taken control. The results would have been the same. dAT is what a good coach does !! He gets a call for his boys !! I tink ole Eddie and Tharp used to rattle a few ref's back in da Portage hey day !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I think there is a big misconception about the pin and the Official slapping the mat. When the Official slaps the mat may have very little to do with when the pin has occurred. The pin occurs the moment the Official has determined the wrestlers shoulders have been down for 2 seconds. At that point he should raise his hand and slap the mat. Once the Official's hand even starts to go up he is saying that he has seen the fall. So, if he raises his hand...the buzzers goes off, and then he slaps the mat....the pin should count. I brought this up a couople of weeks ago when an Official slapped the mat ever so slightly after the buzzer. he went to the table and asked the timer if his hand had hit the mat before the buzzer (which it had not). I stopped him and asked him if he had seen the pin before his hand went up to slap the mat. He admitted that he had...the pin counted. I know of a few Officials who see the pin, then blow their whistle, then slap the mat. No good Official should raise his hand in anticipation of the fall. If an Official is doing the job right and his hand goes up it must come down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Eddie & Tharp = good coaches! Vlink & Rodriguez = good coaches! I don't care if you are winning or not. You argue for all your kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire77 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 very well put Coach Peck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natlchamp2005 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I had to jump on this topic, being a victim to a team pt deduction at sectionals. A coach has to argue every call that's in a weird situation or a bad call. That's being a coach. Also, as a coach you try to get away with as much as possible until they warn you or say something about it. Obviously, the refs were not concerned with Vlink or Rodriguez getting too close to the mat. You also have to realize what position the refs are in to. That was team regionals with three big teams fighting for a spot down state. Every call counts, that's a ton of pressure. Can you do it? The only time I believe you can blow up on a ref is when the ref makes bad call and doesn't want to discuss the call with you. That is against the rules and is a very arrogant thing to do. The coach has every right to blow up! But back to your point, I guess it's up to the referees discretion when you cross the line. A warning first, then misconduct call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Yeah, it seems to me like their are some sour grapes involved here. Portage never minded it one bit when Tharp and Pendoski worked the refs. And I, not being from Portage, didn't mind it either because I figured that's what they're supposed to do. Plus, I've seen Merrillville's coaches out there a lot as well. There's nothing to these peoples' gripes. Congratulations to the Crown Point wrestlers, the coaches, and their program in general. And good luck to Merrillville and Portage the rest of the way. I'll be rooting for you as long as you're not wrestling Crown Point, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Campbell Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I got dinged or my first team point in 18 years a few weeks ago. I was walking on the edge of the mat after the match, broken foot in a boot, mat much softer, when I walked very slowly, of course, behind one of our coaches that was jawing the ref afterwards. The ref had been dogged during the match by our coaches and all the other coaches that day. I was the only one, possibly, that had not yelled at him. As I walked behind the coach and ref, the ref screamed at me to "keep on going pal"....I was very offended at his behavior and told him not to speak to me in that manner, mind his business, and do his job. TEAM POINT!!!! He approached me aggressively and then deducted a team point! WRONG! I will say though, I was surprised we didn't lose a team point during the match! LOL I will never again break my foot, it may cost us another team point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listenup20 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Can you have a team point deducted without a warning? By the way, CP coaches only went to the table 1 time during the Portage match, and in my opinion, it was completely justified. Should the CP coaches just sit there quietly while the refs were making horrible calls? I would not call what they did "working the refs". And, yes, Pendoski was famous for doing this, as is Maldonado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Ed, Tharp and Maldonado all work(ed) the refs with class and not whining. As for the pin in the Roach-Santos match it may have been a pin but the ref waited and it should not have been called after about 10-15 seconds ran off the clock and the period ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listenup20 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 And, did Vlink and Rodriguez do it all wrong then? Please explain. I'm sure by the Roach-Santos match, they were fed up with all the bad calls during the entire tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 most of the bad calls were in there favor. They were all over the refs especially against Merriville and it continued when they wrestled Portage. Not taking anything away from the team. I know that working the refs is part of what the coaches are supposed to do. Just in a more professional way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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