maligned Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 But it's not fair if my 1A kids have to wrestle 3A kids and it causes us not to go to team state because of a bad draw in sectionals... Not saying that you guys aren't pretty good at predicting future ability it just seems silly that you can argue for classing wrestling because its not fair if a 1A kid has to wrestle a 3A kid in the individual tourney but it is ok if this happens for the team state qualifying score... Maybe you guys just need to design a formula to give 1A kids a handicap in the state tourney too... Most of the people organizing and running the state duals event are pro-class. That's why it's a classed event. None of us obviously has any say in the IHSAA's choices about what happens in the individual tournament, but hopefully if the majority of people want a classed system, it will eventually change. As far as your team state concern goes, you're expressing a philosophical concern that it's strange to get eliminated by a 3A guy when I'm trying to qualify for a 1A event. But I think what's really beneath the philosophical concern is a practical concern. The practical concern is that sectionals and regionals have different difficulty levels that deeply impact 1A teams' ability to show their true quality (which would be true whether there was a classed tournament an unclassed tournament). This practical concern is the one that we have spent the last 5 years deeply researching and analyzing 6 seasons of data so that we can properly reward advancement levels in vastly different tournament paths. (If you've been tracking how the scoring works, you know, for example, that only the top 2 guys at some sectionals receive regional qualifier points, while some sectionals' top 6 kids receive regional qualifier points.) And by the way, 3A schools should be more worried about you than the other way around this upcoming season. You guys had such a great tournament and so much coming back that you would have been in vote-in consideration for a 3A spot if you'd be a 3A school. You'll be in the running for a top 20 unclassed duals ranking next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Fan Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I'm just playing devils advocate... Your formula still doesn't help if my 1A kid who is good enough to be 3rd at sectionals ends up not placing because of a bad seeding/draw and has to wrestle the #1 kid who is 3A first match... Like seen in Tecumseh this year where one or two kids advancing can determine if you make it or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 I'm just playing devils advocate... Your formula still doesn't help if my 1A kid who is good enough to be 3rd at sectionals ends up not placing because of a bad seeding/draw and has to wrestle the #1 kid who is 3A first match... Like seen in Tecumseh this year where one or two kids advancing can determine if you make it or not... If your kid isn't a top 6 seed based on the estimation of all the coaches, it's hard to suggest he deserves a shot at top 3. I will grant you that no system can control for the situation where there are 6 or 8 really good kids in one weight class (while the rest of the sectional isn't spectacular so the sectional doesn't get special upgrade treatment). Some of them just won't get the points they deserve, no matter their seed. But Tecumseh is a great example of how the system works. They're in a very tough sectional and regional for which our system upgraded 3 of their non-placers to sectional 5th/6th points, a sectional 5th place guy to regional qualifier points, and 2 regional losers to semi-state first round points. All told, 5 of their 13 entered guys got upgrades to reflect more fair results...as if Tecumseh would be in an average level sectional and regional. That's how it works for every school in every sectional and regional. The "class" shouldn't matter, again, unless you just have a philosophical issue with having guys from different school sizes on the mat against each other. Practically speaking, we can make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted May 3, 2015 Author Share Posted May 3, 2015 (edited) But Tecumseh is a great example of how the system works. They're in a very tough sectional and regional for which our system upgraded 3 of their non-placers to sectional 5th/6th points, a sectional 5th place guy to regional qualifier points, and 2 regional losers to semi-state first round points. All told, 5 of their 13 entered guys got upgrades to reflect more fair results...as if Tecumseh would be in an average level sectional and regional. Check your math, buddy. 6 of 13. Edited May 3, 2015 by maligned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 The voting for the final 2 wildcard position in all three classes was held last night. The coaches' selection committee chose the following teams to join the 12-team fields: 3A: Hamilton Southeastern & Avon 2A: North Montgomery & Columbia City 1A: Attica & Churubusco These teams are added to the following list of teams who have already committed to attend: Class 3A Semi-state automatic qualifiers: Warren Central, Penn, Evansville Mater Dei, Carroll Automatic wildcards: Portage, Perry Meridian, Brownsburg, Cathedral, Jennings County, Lawrence North Class 2A Semi-state automatic qualifiers: Yorktown, Mt. Vernon (Posey), South Dearborn, West Lafayette Automatic wildcards: Bellmont, Delta, Evansville Memorial, Lebanon, Jimtown, Leo Class 1A Semi-state automatic qualifiers: Prairie Heights, Southmont, Monrovia, Bremen Automatic wildcards: Oak Hill, Adams Central, Knightstown, Centerville, Delphi, Triton HSE and Avon have accepted in 3A. N. Montgomery accepted and Columbia City declined in 2A. Peru has now been invited in 2A. Attica has accepted and Churubusco have not committed either way yet in 1A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironbear Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) lol Wow Hamilton Heights got no consideration on this on your last pick when Colombia City said no? Does anybody do research? I mean Hamilton Heights Beat Peru handedly and we won the very conference that they hosted and just so you don't think that was a fluke we beat Delta and Oak Hill as well in the same week. 20-2 and Conference Champions and 13 returning starters. We lost two duels in the very beginning of the year because of wrestlers moving up but after that we never lost again. Just food for thought flame on.......... Edited May 12, 2015 by Ironbear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 lol Wow Hamilton Heights got no consideration on this on your last pick when Colombia City said no? Does anybody do research? I mean Hamilton Heights Beat Peru handedly and we won the very conference that they hosted and just so you don't think that was a fluke we beat Delta as well in the same week. 20-2 and Conference Champions and 13 returning starters. We lost two duels in the very beginning of the year because of wrestlers moving up but after that we never lost again. Just food for thought flame on.......... The rule is that a team must be within 15 points of the highest scoring team that was not an automatic pick. Hamilton Heights was 18 points behind that team so by rule they could not be given consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 The rule is that a team must be within 15 points of the highest scoring team that was not an automatic pick. Hamilton Heights was 18 points behind that team so by rule they could not be given consideration. Actually, they only had to be within 15 points of the second highest scoring non-automatic team (northwood) for the final voting position. This means they missed the cutoff by 0.5 points. If they hadn't forfeited one weight or if they had won even one more match of any type anywhere in the tournament series, they would have been in the voting and would have brought a nice résumé. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppem215 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 HSE and Avon have accepted in 3A. N. Montgomery accepted and Columbia City declined in 2A. Peru has now been invited in 2A. Attica has accepted and Churubusco have not committed either way yet in 1A. Peru? nkraus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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