Team State Format

[hook and half]

TEAM STATE AND IF YA THINK ITS YELLING DONT READ IT. FOCUS ------------TEAM STATE ITS FUNY YOU NEED A BOOK TO TELL YOU HOW TO FEEL, THATS HILARIOUS AND PART OF THE PROBLEM.  :) ;D

 

is this caliboy?  do you know him?  lovers?

[Fabio Jr.]

someone is really enjoying gran dads cough syrup on their snow day

[maligned]

Alright, jgmotorfan, I'll bite. 

 

The Ohio-type system is fundamentally not acceptable by IHSAA standards because it is classed.  The IHSAA patently refuses to class any sport they deem "individual".

 

Could elements of the Ohio system be used to carve out a new proposal for bringing back team state in a non-classed format?  Perhaps, but it would need drastic changes to fit anything that might grab the IHSAA's attention. 

 

Do you have thoughts on what those changes could be?  Others on other threads are brainstorming good ideas as well. 

[jgmotorfan]

FINALLY INTELLIGENCE. So it seems somebody must bring suite against ISHaa  which could force them to atleast sit down and listen to ind, sports complaints not just wrestling. MIGHT BE A START!

[Y2CJ41]

What kind of suite should we bring the IHSAA? I think it would be kinda awkward bringing them to the Honeymoon Suite.

[Fabio Jr.]

They seem prime for a liable case

[ShyGuy]

Indiana has it partly right and Ohio has it partly right.  Individual State should be one class and no team score.  Team State should be classed and your true Team State Champions.

[NIaGrad]

From what I am hearing, going through the IHSAA is not likely to be fruitful.  I made a proposal and haven't seen any constructive criticism or comment but instead have seen a lot of hot air being blown around.  Let's stop complaining about what we don't have control and solve the problem.  Look at how many multi team duels are going on throughout the state.  With a little organization and forethought we could have what we want without formal IHSAA.  We are very close with what just happened last weekend.  Let's hear about what we can do and how to do it.

[Fabio Jr.]

Unless we get waivers for weighins coaches are not willing to use 4 weigh ins and potentially not be able to use two or have to use them on a tournament that's is not very good. It's not like we havnt thought about qualifying tournaments they are just a more of a logistical nightmare than people think. The state duals this year suffered from flip flopping on how things were done and presented so lets get that down first ans then explore other tournaments as a means of qualifying. And that probably cannot happen untill there is some help from the ihsaa so it could be a while

[maligned]

I appreciate the Bellmont Coach stepping in on behalf of his team.  I very much enjoyed the excellent wrestling and this weekend and appreciate the time and effort that went into this event. 

 

The discussion did get me thinking about the format.  There was a post advocating 4 eight team regional meets with the champion in each regional meeting for a 4 team bracket the following day.  That still doesn't address the issue of having two strong cross-town rivals that may both be in the top four.

 

When I mentioned that I think down the road it could be workable to go to a model like this (32 teams per class for one 2-day tournament, with satellite locations on the first day), I still envisioned seeds being used.  I think seeding the top 8 would still be very possible.

 

Here is a bit more detailed description of what I think could work for a 2-day single event:

 

--32 teams per class over 2 days (96 total teams)

--4 locations per class on Friday with 8 teams per location; 60-72 officials (5-6 per site)

--1 central location for the semi-finals, third place, and championship matches for all 3 classes on Saturday

 

DAY 1 (Friday)

[4 mats, 8 teams per geographic site; 2-3 brackets (16-24 teams) could be hosted by certain facilities]

Round 1 (9:30am): Site quarterfinals

Round 2 (11:30am): Site semifinals and consolations

Round 3 (1:30pm): Site finals, 3rd place, 5th place, 7th place matches (Champions finished by 3-3:30pm for Friday travel home or to Finals site hotel)

**Additional Possibility: Rounds 4,5,6 wrestled as normal super dual among remaining 7 teams to get a full 4-5 matches from the scheduling points...champion excluded from these rounds.  All other teams finished with competition on Friday to allow attendance of Finals on Saturday.

 

DAY 2 (Saturday)

[6 mats, 4 teams per class (12 total) at central location]

Weigh-in (12pm) Late start to allow Saturday travel for teams that are far and do not want to get a hotel on Friday night.

Semi-finals on 6 mats (1:30pm)

3rd Place matches on 3 mats (3:30pm)

Finals on 3 mats (5:30pm) Awards finished by 8:30; everyone home by 11pm their local time, even in Evansville

 

Selection Procedures: Scoring system used to select 4 teams per semi-state per class (16 total), plus 16 remaining highest scores per class

(no voting, just scoring with simplified, but similar system to the current one)

 

Invitation Process:

--32 invites per class issued immediately following individual state finals in Year 1 for event in Year 2. 

--Six weeks are given for teams to accept bids.  Failure to accept bid results in forfeiture of position. 

--Four additional weeks are given for "next in line" teams to accept bids. 

--Process continues until all bids are accepted.

 

Seeding Process: Top 8 (or more) with some geographic considerations to diminish travel on Friday.  Other teams assigned geographically and bracketed via random draw. 

[Examples of possible difficult situations:

1. Penn/Mishawaka/Portage all seeded.  Two travel to Lafayette, one goes to FW for Friday competition to fill 3 out of 4 needed seeds for those two sites instead of 3 seeds at one location.

2. Evansville Memorial seeded 6 and Jimtown seeded 7, but a southern team is #2 and a northern team is #3.  Memorial and Jimtown flip locations due to nearness of seeds and desire to diminish travel for Friday.]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GrecoCoach]

Maligned,

 

This format could work. It would need to be during winter break to have it on Friday/Saturday. Dates there would be tough to fight against Al Smith, Connersville, Evansville, North Mont, etc. But it could be done. Plus, since there are already tournaments out there that use the multiple sites format, there shouldn't be any issues with it having to count as more than one tournament (schools are only allowed 7 tournaments by IHSAA rules).

 

An event of this magnitude would need lots of help planning it. I am INTELLIGENT enough to understand that the few IHSWCA board members won't be able to do it alone. It will take many volunteers to organize everything that goes into running a tournament, especially with multiple sites.

 

I'd suggest sending this proposal to Danny. I'm sure they will discuss the team state and ways to improve it for future years. It would be UNREALISTIC to think this could happen without some discussions about it first.

 

Jake

 

Side Note:

jgmotorfan, I called you ignorant because you obviously don't understand how the IHSAA operates. Nor do you know the rules about weigh-ins and tournaments or how events get planned. I did not call you stupid as you did to me for pointing out that all caps is yelling on the Internet.

[maligned]

Maligned,

 

This format could work. It would need to be during winter break to have it on Friday/Saturday. Dates there would be tough to fight against Al Smith, Connersville, Evansville, North Mont, etc. But it could be done. Plus, since there are already tournaments out there that use the multiple sites format, there shouldn't be any issues with it having to count as more than one tournament (schools are only allowed 7 tournaments by IHSAA rules).

 

 

The timing issue is an important one for sure if the event is going to grow.  As it works now, it will sometimes be on a Saturday during Christmas break (as it was this year) and sometimes not.  This year, an example like the one I've outlined would have worked perfectly.  Other years it would be more complicated. 

My guess is that if an event of this magnitude can happen once, it will so impact the scheduling of other tournaments that a weekend in the "real" schedule after the holidays would eventually just be designated as "state duals" weekend and we could really run with different options.

[Y2CJ41]

I think it is way more important to secure an outside facility that can really add some flare to the event. Having two of the top teams wrestling in a fieldhouse with less than adequate seating for their fans is a travesty.

 

Of course we are still awaiting the financials from 2012 and how an event that brings in $10-15K loses money, so lets not hold our breath on change any time soon.

[NIaGrad]

I like most of what Maligned has to say.  I still prefer having 8 teams in the final.  In order to do this you would probably have to have two weekends in a row, say the 2nd and 3rd wkend in Dec. (or possibly 1st and second, whichever would be best to avoid the Holidays) or the 1st and 2nd week in January. 

 

The first weekend would be 4 qualifying regional meets based on SS boundries with coaches from the region deciding which 8 teams would participate and where they would be seeded.  My thinking is that it would be easier to seed teams within a region where they would have wrestled more matches in common.  Having a challenge match just between winner of consolation and loser of final would negate somewhat the importance of seeding.  That would still just be four matches, not unusual for a super duel.

 

The weekend of the finals, would consist of eight teams, #1 and #2 from each semistate.  The four semistate champs would be seeded and the runner ups placed on opposite side of the bracket from the victor of their semistate.  Again, I would like to see a challenge round with winner of consolation challenging loser of final, winner of loser's bracket challenging loser of consolations, and winner of loser's consolation challenging loser of loser's bracket finals.

 

The results would unequivocally rank the first two and fairly accurately rank the top eight.  Potentially a third place team from a strong semistate could claim third but it wouldn't make that much difference at that point.

 

It may take a few years to adjust the schedules of the super duel schedule to accomodate the team state schedule but if there is a will it could be done.