1gold Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 A lot of grumbling around scoring TD's and near fall points , also the out of bounds line. A refs clinic for parents would be nice , because alot of us don't know what a TD is for instance. State finals match Wrestler A takes down Wrestler B in double leg and holds legs till time expires. No points awarded until refs discuss the call and then gave Wrestler A 2pts.. Wrestler A was in control , but never worked up to the hip . I also seen alot of Take Downs at edge of the mat , where Wrestler A had both feet in bounds and took down Wrestler B only to have no points awarded. In college its 2pts , but in high school its waived out of bounds.. That stupid rule has to be changed . As for the Refs clinic you could start by making it mandatory for all wrestling club parents.. If parents and coaches were educated there would be a lot less mat stoppage and grumbling.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I can't remember the details of the story since it was >15 yrs. ago since I went through the Copper coaches training. However, during the training, our instructor showed us a video of an Olympic match where the ref scored the match 6-3 (? or something like that). There was a protest or review etc. and the actual score should have been 7-2 (the other way). Again, I'm not sure about the actual scores................the bottom line of this story was............."here is one of the best referees in the world and he didn't get the calls right. Please give our young referees a break during the Folkstyle and Freestyle seasons". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1gold Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 Maybe a rule book might come in handy. How each Ref , Coach and Fan interprit certain rules might differ as far as control is concearned.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIACfan Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I also seen alot of Take Downs at edge of the mat , where Wrestler A had both feet in bounds and took down Wrestler B only to have no points awarded. In college its 2pts , but in high school its waived out of bounds.. This is something I would like to know, what is the rule for a TD at the edge? I thought it is one foot in for college & two feet in for HS. Can anyone let me know what the college & HS rules actually are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feez Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Some high school coaches invite parents and have officials at their wrestle-offs at the beginning of the season. The officials go over rule changes with the parents and wrestlers and are willing to answer any question a wrestler, coach or parent may have. There is also an Ask The Official message board where you can ask about rules interpretation. The state rules interpreters will try and do their best to answer your questions. And they are very good! ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash513 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 This is something I would like to know, what is the rule for a TD at the edge? I thought it is one foot in for college & two feet in for HS. Can anyone let me know what the college & HS rules actually are? Not positive on college, but it doesn't have anything to do with feet in high school. There needs to be two points of pressure in bounds. If the knees are on the ground out of bounds, it doesnt matter where the feet are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIACfan Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Not positive on college, but it doesn't have anything to do with feet in high school. There needs to be two points of pressure in bounds. If the knees are on the ground out of bounds, it doesnt matter where the feet are. Thanks! OK, wrestler A has both arms wrapped around wrestler B's legs. Wrestler B is completely out of bounds while wrestler A has both feet inside the circle. If Wrestler A has the presence of mind to keep up on his toes then its a TD but if his knees are touching out of bounds then it is not. That is awefully tough to call, they sure don't make life easy for the refs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash513 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Thanks! OK, wrestler A has both arms wrapped around wrestler B's legs. Wrestler B is completely out of bounds while wrestler A has both feet inside the circle. If Wrestler A has the presence of mind to keep up on his toes then its a TD but if his knees are touching out of bounds then it is not. That is awefully tough to call, they sure don't make life easy for the refs. Great example of this is the 160 lb championship. I was watching from home and actually had a pretty good view of both the close call/non-takedowns. IMO the one in the first period was a takedown and the one in the third was not. It appeared that the right knee (from memory) was down out of bounds leaving only one point of pressure in bounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1gold Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 I think it would make it easier for the official to see the toes in bounds rather than the knee's or body.. It might make the kid who uses the edge of the mat to his advantage , wrestle instead of stall his a__ off. I know a lot of teams coach this technique , which was obvious this weekend.. Thats no way to wrestle and I think its a black eye to the sport ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allritecoach Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 http://matref0.tripod.com/Articles/NFHS_Rules_Photos.pdf This is a nice link to share with the parents. Thanks! OK, wrestler A has both arms wrapped around wrestler B's legs. Wrestler B is completely out of bounds while wrestler A has both feet inside the circle. If Wrestler A has the presence of mind to keep up on his toes then its a TD but if his knees are touching out of bounds then it is not. That is awefully tough to call, they sure don't make life easy for the refs. If you look at pictures 13+14 pertaining to rule 5-25 your knees can touch down out of bounds as long as you go to your toes immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I admire your willingness to learn the rules, however, if you have the idea that learning the rules will make it easier to accept/watch officials close calls I think you might be disappointed. In my experience, learning the rule book just gives your ill feelings more credibility and intensity. Every referee on the floor passed the rules test with 90+% accuracy. Everyone who puts on the uniform and walks out of the tunnel knows the rules. Obviously, when the assistant officials were used and the call was reversed there was simply a difference of opinion (reality for that matter). The officials simply see situations differently. They evaluate the match differently than the official standing on the same mat! Learning the rules won't help you understand what is going on in each officials mind. Again, I feel like it is well worth the effort to meet with a local official and/or read the rule book. Don't think for a second that will make every call make sense for you as you sit in the stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachi123 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 So why not have three officials to a mat like freestyle. The reverse of a call looks Terrible by the assistant ref. Also, if two out of three agree then no questions asked. I believe the job of the asstiant should go no farther then violations and the clock. That's it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryopinionated Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 The assistant referee has absolutely no authority to reverse a call or to overrule the official, he can only offer an opinion as to what he saw, and he can (or should) only offer it when he's asked. The head official can take his opinion, or leave his opinion, but it's 100% the head official's choice and he has the final sayso. In this case the head official is asking the assistant whether or not time had expired before the takedown was signaled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 rule 7-3-3 Interlocking of hands around both legs by the offensive wrestler is a technical violation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 rule 7-3-3 Interlocking of hands around both legs by the offensive wrestler is a technical violation. Right. But it's only a violation after control (a takedown) has been awarded. In the 120-lb match, the official hadn't awarded a takedown--but it was so close that he didn't want to call a stalemate and take away the scoring opportunity. Then, when the assistant said that it was a takedown in his opinion, it was enough to sway the head official to that side and award the points. He can't go back, then, and penalize the kid who had no chance to unlock his hands because control hadn't been awarded during the action. It's a shame that this isn't a "bad time" situation, by rule, as some suggested maybe it should have been. Some portion of that 45 seconds would have been available for Hughes to escape or reverse when Deondre would have had to change his grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1gold Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 Deondre definately earned the victory on his feet. What surprised me was the fact he has only been wrestling a couple of years. I can see him winning another title next year ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIACfan Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 http://matref0.tripod.com/Articles/NFHS_Rules_Photos.pdf This is a nice link to share with the parents. If you look at pictures 13+14 pertaining to rule 5-25 your knees can touch down out of bounds as long as you go to your toes immediately. Thanks! The link is very informative but that only makes it tougher for the official to get the call right. Correct me if I'm wrong but in college isn't the rule if a take down is secured with one foot in the circle then its good with no regard to points of pressure? Seems to me with as much wrestling that happens at the edge & the defending wrestler allowed to escape trouble by going out of bounds that they should give the attacking wrestler more leeway at the mat edge. My understanding is that fleeing the mat is supposed to be stalling but wrestlers are nevered called on this when escaping a TD at the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandan Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I've struggled with OOB calls for years. In the end, I've observed that if a kid dominates a match, he will win - that's it. If it is extremely even, these calls will go one way or the other and one kid or the other will win since ties are not permitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgmotorfan Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 The best wrestlers work the edge of mats in folkstlye and the same wrestlers stay away from the edge and wrestle in the center in freestyle. Why? points. which is what wrestling needs to draw the average fans to the olympics, if it ever wants to be an olympic sport again. rule changes for more POINTS in matches. looking to much like soccer to the average fan,1-0, 2-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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