yogihof Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I seem to recall a few years ago when the Duall Meet Team State was on the chopping block that the IHSAA offered this "proposal": Either keep the Team State Tourney as is (which was eventually done) or have wrestlebacks at all levels of the state tournament. If we are going to score each level of the State Tournament and Award Team Trophies based on that scoring, I think a case can be made for Wrestlebacks, since that will get a truer indicator of a teams strength at each weight. Does anyone else recall this past discussion? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I also recall this discussion, but some of the higher ups in the IHSWCA mysteriously do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Although I am not a "higher up" with the IHSWCA nor was I when this discussion took place, I do remember it, but at the time people were adamant about keeping the Dual State so trading Dual State for wrestlebacks was taken off the table. I think Tom Miller and I both felt like we should have made the trade because the Dual State was on the way out because the IHSAA generally gets it the way they want unless someone fights them and we did not see anyone in (or out) of the IHSWCA really willing to fight the battle. I beleieve we voiced this at one of the clinic meetings. By the time the IHSAA finally voted to end the tournament we did not have any negotiating chips left. I was talking to Bobby Cox at the Individual State finals and jokingly told him there were two issues I would not bring up and he said, "...if I was talking about the dual tournament and wrestlebacks that they were dead issues." I think unless some Principal really gets on board they are both actually dead issues. I also am not sure that the terms "ALL levels" was used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Hoover Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 This would have had to been some time ago because this trade was not on the table during my four years as an officer. Cale Hoover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeedsWrastlin Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 indiana should have wrestle backs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 They offered this over five years ago? What tournament levels did they offer wrestlebacks ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCKAJC Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 If we are going to score each level of the State Tournament and Award Team Trophies based on that scoring, I think a case can be made for Wrestlebacks, since that will get a truer indicator of a teams strength at each weight. Good point. Wrestle backs could very easily change the outcome of the team scoring when those same team scores are derived from the individual tournament. Without the wrestle backs speculation will always exists as to the validity of not only the team state champion, but for that matter all team placements. It?s undeniable. I?d be interested to hear the IHSAA?s position on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrecoCoach Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I do not remember how long ago it was, and I wasn't one of the leaders of the IHSWCA. But as I remember it explained, the coaches were again proposing wrestlebacks at semistate. Then the IHSAA, during the proposal, asked if the coaches association would be willing to drop team state to add wrestlebacks. This was completely unexpected. The leaders of the IHSWCA answered that they would have to ask the coaches and couldn't make that huge of a decision without their input. In hindsight, we probably should have taken the deal to at least come out of it with something. However, it was absolutely the right response from our leaders at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I do not remember how long ago it was, and I wasn't one of the leaders of the IHSWCA. But as I remember it explained, the coaches were again proposing wrestlebacks at semistate. Then the IHSAA, during the proposal, asked if the coaches association would be willing to drop team state to add wrestlebacks. This was completely unexpected. The leaders of the IHSWCA answered that they would have to ask the coaches and couldn't make that huge of a decision without their input. In hindsight, we probably should have taken the deal to at least come out of it with something. However, it was absolutely the right response from our leaders at the time. Thanks Jake. That is the exact scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currentwrestler Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I think we should most certainly have wrestlebacks at all levels. I did not place my senior year while seven other individuals I never lost to did, one of which being in my own weight class. However, that is part of it. Would we have the TIME to hold those extra matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnhs Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Coach Peck, You are right about when but Miller was not in favor of giving anything up to the IHSAA in exchange for something else, thats why the IHSWCA never got anywhere with issues because he was unwilling to compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharmon01 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Like I have said in other post, this is what happened While I was VP with coach Miller when we proposed wrestle backs at both the regional and semi-state level a Principal interrupted our proposal and asked about giving up team state in favor of wrestle backs at the individual tournament. Tom stated we were there for our proposal of wrestle backs and not team state. This was not the first time BLAKE had made his dislike for team state My last year as president was our proposal year. After polling our membership at the sectional seeding meetings, it was clear our membership wanted wrestle backs at the regional and semi-state levels of the individual tournament. I drove back from nationals in michigan to propose wrestle bcks at the ADs Executive meeting. With the support of my AD, who was on the AD Executive Board, we won the AD's vote for wrestle backs at the regional and semi-state. We were feeling confident. In May JD, Barry and myself proposed wrestle backs to the IHSAA Executive Board. Half way through our proposal a principal, maybe the same one, asked if we would give up team state for wrestle backs. We told hem we were there for our proposal for wrestle backs and not team state. They continued to pressure us asking us "What would you like to see?" I stated what we felt didn't matter - we represented our membership and wrestle backs were what they were concerned with. We wouid have to go back to our membership and discuss and vote on team state, which we did at both the spring and fall clinics following the IHSAA response. The membership wanted to continue wrestle backs and felt why give up something we already have? During a break at the May meeting a principal,who was a former wrestling coach, cornered me and said"Bob if you agree to this you can have wrestle backs and go back to the old way the tournament was scored." I said "I can't do that without the consent of our membership, I'm only a representative of our membership, my opinion doesn't matter" I wrote a letter to all members of the Executive Board telling them how unethical it was to ask our officers to do this without first polling our membership. This was all explained at the Fall Clinic and our membership agreed. We warned everyone that the team tournament was in jeopardy. Blake argued during our proposal about how much more time wrestle backs would add to the tournament - which no administrator wants to hear, even when they are not even there and the ADs had voted in favor. I told Blake over and over you could wrestle a Regional with wrsetle backs and still have a basketball game the same day. The semi-state was not a problem because there was no basketball game at those sites. He just wanted to make the principals that it would take more time - like they would be there anyway! He also used the argument that so many coaches had personally told him they were against team state and so many teams didn't wrestle their varsity squads at team regional. Like I have state before, yes there were a few times a team wrestled a full jv at team regional, how many times did it really happen? It is no different from football or any other sport holding out a key player for injury or sickness in the play offs. They made it seem like the majority of teams wrestled there jv kids only, which I believe is not a true fact. Like I have stated a hundred times before, it doesnt matter what you want class wrestling or wrestle backs, it comes down to if the IHSAA wants to do it for ALL individual sports not just wrestling. They will ask you about time, facilities, officials etc. - they will always find a reason it won't work until they want it to work. I was in many meetings with Bobby Cox and he would agree with us then just as quickly bring up the questins of wherre we could hold it, how much travel, do we have enough officials to cover such an event? I hope we get what we want, but the question is - Do we all agree on what we want? They have used divide in our membership against us. I hope our new leadership can find a way to get everyone on the same page. Team State is gone and I'm not sure how we will ever get it back - classed or single Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts