IHSWCA Survey Results

[Y2CJ41]

There are more than twice as many high schools in Ohio than in Indiana.  I would go with two classes for team state vs 3.

 

I hear Ohio will be introducing a new team state format next year where all teams are in it---not sure how they are doing it though.

 

if you used two classes for Individual as well you could have a dual meet with each divisions state champs

From the data I have gathered Ohio has 528 schools with wrestling, while Indiana has around 310. 

This data is from a few years ago, but is still pretty up to date

http://indianamat.com/stuff/statebreakdown.html

 

Looking at other states if we went to a two class system with 16 qualifiers in each division we would still have only around 10% of the state's wrestlers qualify for state.  That would still put us right around other states that are classed, but still highly competitive.

[1oldwrestler]

Wouldn't classing ultimately make the largest school class that much better?  It would probably take 5 to 10 years but if the biggest schools continually butted heads in the post season and in tournaments where mostly big schools competed throughout the regular season, I would imagine that if you actually had a dual meet between the 3A champ and the 1A champ, there would be no contest.  The 3A champ would win going away.  Would that contribute to Indiana H.S. wrestling getting better on a national scale?  The 3A champs would get the most of the D1 scholarships and they would be better prepared for the next level because they faced better competition throughout their 4 years of h.s.  Get the little schools out of the way so the big boys can compete only against one another, kind of a steel sharpens steel deal.  Maybe you've been going at this the wrong way all along Y2.  Nobody cares about small schools so figure an angle out that appeals to your opponents sense of ego. 

[Smooth34]

With more kids having success, especially at the small school level, you could see an increase in the level of wrestling because those kids would be pursing more camps, clubs, etc in the offseason and going on to wrestle in college.

 

Even with more success, would athletes at smaller schools wrestle in the spring?  Most small schools need athletes who compete in multiple sports to survive.  So these kids are playing baseball, running track, and playing golf instead of going to RTC's and weekend tournaments.  

[KarlHungus]

Wouldn't classing ultimately make the largest school class that much better?  It would probably take 5 to 10 years but if the biggest schools continually butted heads in the post season and in tournaments where mostly big schools competed throughout the regular season, I would imagine that if you actually had a dual meet between the 3A champ and the 1A champ, there would be no contest.  The 3A champ would win going away.  Would that contribute to Indiana H.S. wrestling getting better on a national scale?  The 3A champs would get the most of the D1 scholarships and they would be better prepared for the next level because they faced better competition throughout their 4 years of h.s.  Get the little schools out of the way so the big boys can compete only against one another, kind of a steel sharpens steel deal.  Maybe you've been going at this the wrong way all along Y2.  Nobody cares about small schools so figure an angle out that appeals to your opponents sense of ego. 

 

I agree with this.  If schools like Warsaw, Logansport, Huntington North, and New Castle had to face only schools their size for sectional titles and/or advancement in the individual tournament, I think it would improve them greatly.  As it is now, many larger schools can practically win a sectional by having a full lineup merely because geography puts them with predominantly small schools. 

[KarlHungus]

Even with more success, would athletes at smaller schools wrestle in the spring?  Most small schools need athletes who compete in multiple sports to survive.  So these kids are playing baseball, running track, and playing golf instead of going to RTC's and weekend tournaments. 

 

I helped coach a state champion from a small school this year who was only a regional qualifier last year.  He also does track in the spring.  We strongly encourage our wrestlers to take part in some form of spring wrestling even if they are in a spring sport.  The state champion did not do any spring wrestling however, i would imagine if he were a state qualifier as a junior he would have.

 

My point is that as a junior he had no idea that wrestling could be in his future at the college level but after winning a state championship he has been contacted by three division 1 schools in the past 3 weeks.  The problem is for a senior, it is almost too late in the game.  Had he experienced more success his junior year and participated in off-season wrestling, the likelyhood of him appearing on someones recruiting radar would have increased dramatically. 

 

With class wrestling I see this as a way to get more kids interested in wrestling at all levels in college.  They would get recruited earlier and see wrestling as a viable option.  As it stands now, many kids only experience success worthy of being recruited by colleges in their senior year due to the exclusive nature of our state tournament.  This applies to wrestlers and big schools and small schools alike.  Many of these wrestlers will return to the state and coach the next generation of Indiana wrestlers.  Without trying to sound like an elitest snob, I think this would raise the overall level and depth of wrestling in our state.

[Smooth34]

I helped coach a state champion from a small school this year who was only a regional qualifier last year.  He also does track in the spring.  We strongly encourage our wrestlers to take part in some form of spring wrestling even if they are in a spring sport.  The state champion did not do any spring wrestling however, i would imagine if he were a state qualifier as a junior he would have.

 

My point is that as a junior he had no idea that wrestling could be in his future at the college level but after winning a state championship he has been contacted by three division 1 schools in the past 3 weeks.  The problem is for a senior, it is almost too late in the game.  Had he experienced more success his junior year and participated in off-season wrestling, the likelyhood of him appearing on someones recruiting radar would have increased dramatically. 

 

With class wrestling I see this as a way to get more kids interested in wrestling at all levels in college.  They would get recruited earlier and see wrestling as a viable option.  As it stands now, many kids only experience success worthy of being recruited by colleges in their senior year due to the exclusive nature of our state tournament.  This applies to wrestlers and big schools and small schools alike.  Many of these wrestlers will return to the state and coach the next generation of Indiana wrestlers.  Without trying to sound like an elitest snob, I think this would raise the overall level and depth of wrestling in our state.

 

I totall agree with this.  However, are schools going to recruit 1A state qualifiers and placers?  They don't recruit most football players from smaller classes.

[Y2CJ41]

I totall agree with this.  However, are schools going to recruit 1A state qualifiers and placers?  They don't recruit most football players from smaller classes.

Division 1 schools will probably very rarely go after 1A placers, but look at the champs if they have good in season(ex. Mishawaka champ) or off season results.  For instance, Andrew Howe would have been 1A, he wasn't recruited because of his state results, but because he placed at Fargo and other national level events. 

 

DII and DIII schools will definitely look at small school placers and qualifiers.  They will look to them as diamonds in the rough who might have played two or three sports and not been able to dedicate a lot of time to wrestling, but who will flourish if they only wrestle.  They will also look at the fact that they usually don't have the same level of practice partners and even coaching staffs as a big school kid.  They will look for kids they think will flourish with better coaching and practice partners.... as I did in college.

[Boot]

That's absolutely the case. DII and DIII schools go after them very heavily. And for kids who want a good education the DII and DIII schools tend to be smaller and more focused on undergrad education. It's a win-win.

[1oldwrestler]

I totall agree with this.  However, are schools going to recruit 1A state qualifiers and placers?  They don't recruit most football players from smaller classes.

 

Deshaun Thomas from 2A Luers was the most sought after b-ball recruit in the state of Indiana last year and is obviously more than adequate at the next/highest level of collegiate competition.  Obviously his notariety came from all the club ball he played in the off-season but Luers also played a grueling schedule not just in the SAC (where they are, I believe, the smallest school attendance -wise in the conference) but they played big Indy schools and, I think, some top notch out of state competition.  So, the answer would be yes, 1A standouts would be recruited but they would have to be ridiculously talented, probably only those guys who had multiple 1A state titles under their belts.

[Smooth34]

Division 1 schools will probably very rarely go after 1A placers, but look at the champs if they have good in season(ex. Mishawaka champ) or off season results.  For instance, Andrew Howe would have been 1A, he wasn't recruited because of his state results, but because he placed at Fargo and other national level events. 

 

DII and DIII schools will definitely look at small school placers and qualifiers.  They will look to them as diamonds in the rough who might have played two or three sports and not been able to dedicate a lot of time to wrestling, but who will flourish if they only wrestle.  They will also look at the fact that they usually don't have the same level of practice partners and even coaching staffs as a big school kid.  They will look for kids they think will flourish with better coaching and practice partners.... as I did in college.

 

Can't recruiters find these "diamonds in the rough" now?  Aren't some semi-state qualifiers being recruited by smaller DII, DIII, and NAIA schools? Wouldn't a semi-state qualifer now be just as good as a state qualifier in classed format, especially in 1A? 

 

I'm honestly wondering if these kids are being recruited.  If not, recruiters aren't doing their job correctly. 

 

I can understand your point about smaller colleges who can give scholarships.  However, it's tough to convince a lot of kids to go pay an extra 10,000-15,000 to go to a small, private school just to wrestle when they can go to a state school and get a cheaper and arguably better education.

[Y2CJ41]

It is very rare for a semi-state qualifier to be heavily recruited.  The first and biggest reason is that no DII, DIII or NAIA school has the recruiting resources(money and coaching staff) to go to multiple semi-states, so they miss half or 75% of the kids anyway.  The only way a coach is actively recruiting a semi-state qualifier is if the kid initiates the contact.  Coaches are not going to go hot and heavy after a semi-state qualifier because they probably don't have a clue about them. 

 

Add to that would you as a college coach from another state rather come to Indiana where you can watch 224 kids or go to Ohio where you can watch 672 kids in one place?  To me, I am going to go to Ohio where I can see quite a bit more kids than Indiana and get more bang for my buck.  Many out of state coaches find it extremely difficult to recruit the state and therefore many of our kids are stuck with very limited options after high school. 

[Smooth34]

It is very rare for a semi-state qualifier to be heavily recruited.  The first and biggest reason is that no DII, DIII or NAIA school has the recruiting resources(money and coaching staff) to go to multiple semi-states, so they miss half or 75% of the kids anyway.  The only way a coach is actively recruiting a semi-state qualifier is if the kid initiates the contact.  Coaches are not going to go hot and heavy after a semi-state qualifier because they probably don't have a clue about them. 

 

Add to that would you as a college coach from another state rather come to Indiana where you can watch 224 kids or go to Ohio where you can watch 672 kids in one place?  To me, I am going to go to Ohio where I can see quite a bit more kids than Indiana and get more bang for my buck.  Many out of state coaches find it extremely difficult to recruit the state and therefore many of our kids are stuck with very limited options after high school. 

 

Good points

[busstogate]

The IHSAA team state survey questions came to me today and it is not really at all like the coaches' survey.  It is very canted to either wanting change or not, and if so, do you wantthe change to be our way #1 or our way # 2.  Boo hiss.

[Y2CJ41]

What were the questions they asked?