Galagore Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Mr. Galgore, When you ask him how he finished at state, does he say DIII state champion or does he say state champion? As I said, he refers to himself as a state champion. And for the record, I am not a state champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phscoach Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 So you are saying that small schools should lower their standards in order to deem themselves successful? We should be happy just being on the mat with big schools? Wow! Isn't this your exact argument? Aren't you backing the proposal to allow small school wrestlers to wrestle for a state championship against roughly 1/2 or 1/3 of the eligible wrestlers in their weight class? How is that not lowering the standards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Isn't this your exact argument? Aren't you backing the proposal to allow small school wrestlers to wrestle for a state championship against roughly 1/2 or 1/3 of the eligible wrestlers in their weight class? How is that not lowering the standards? I think it would lower the standards somewhat however I believe that when I program can realistically compete for team and individual state championships the health of that program is enhanced. A struggling small school program would also have a realistic shot of building a program if they don't have to battle the juggernauts. Small schools can still schedule bigger schools/better programs through the year and I assume many would so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MISHCAVEFAN Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 No, what is rediculous is small schools claim to be state champions when mediocre big schools would crush them. If they can't handle the truth, that's not my fault. Get better or get used to it. Or I suppose you can keep scheduling the weakest small schools in the state and have 37-2 records going into semistate only to be thrashed by some kid that's 19-16 who actually wrestles a decent schedule. If you did not care, I don't think you would have taken the time to respond. MD in wrestling and Muncie Burris in volleyball make that statement sound foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdanteague Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 MD in wrestling and Muncie Burris in volleyball make that state sound foolish. Atypical schools. When you guys start feeling threatened by LaVille (typical school), get back with me. Besides didn't one of Burris' best players go to Mishawaka last year??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scardy94 Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Not rediculous at all. Their are openings all the time with quality programs. Just this past december, New Haven was looking for a 10th team in a field that included Elkhart Memorial, Yorktown, New Haven, Prairie Heights and other solid programs. No one stepped up to fill it. If you enjoy wrestling frontier and caston 4 times a year be my guest, just means more state berths for the big boys. Ya it's great when these come open during the season, and schools still have contracts to follow. Called respect there. You don't back out of a contract (as some schools do) just to enter another tournament. Find me a tournament within 2 hours of Monticello for the 23rd and we are willing to get into it! ;D P.s. we only wrestle frontier twice and caston once! : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdanteague Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Ya it's great when these come open during the season, and schools still have contracts to follow. Called respect there. You don't back out of a contract (as some schools do) just to enter another tournament. Find me a tournament within 2 hours of Monticello for the 23rd and we are willing to get into it! ;D P.s. we only wrestle frontier twice and caston once! : New Haven was open forever. There are currently two Indianapolis area invites looking for teams. Huntington is looking for teams. Wrestling contracts are normally one year at a time so getting out of next year's stuff would be no issue. Come swim in the deep water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Same old story. Snip at each other instead of actually providing input on the issue. Still have to unanswered questions floating out there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdanteague Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Same old story. Snip at each other instead of actually providing input on the issue. Still have to unanswered questions floating out there.... Get better or get used to it my masked friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Get better or get used to it my masked friend. So I have to get better just to get answers to my questions? nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdanteague Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 So I have to get better just to get answers to my questions? nice. Spring sport??? What the heck is that? Spring is freestyle season brotha! Sure lifting and camps are great but you better have your butt on the mat in march, april, may and in the summer if you wanna do big boy wrestling. State champ, you better be getting yourself to Fast Eddie P or the Hump family for additional work. If your geographically blessed you can even take the Andrew Howe route and do your extra mat work at Overtime. You roll with Jake Herbert, Bormet and the boys over there, and things will look easy in indiana. That is the porch the big dawgs reside on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duck_and_run Posted January 14, 2010 Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 Y2, no one is saying not to shoot for a state title. In fact I am saying your team could get there with the right off season preperation. Another thing that bothers me is you want to class wrestling on the individual side as well as the team side. Are you saying Schendal and McCray can not compete with the talent of big schools? I know thats not what your saying, but it is kind of implied. The truth is small school individuals and teams can compete on all levels with the right trainging. In Fort wayne small schools run at least 4 of the top ten spots. They may not be on the very top but just being close proves that small schools can compete. Another thing, just because Adam Central is in Belmonts sectional doesn't mean that they couldn't compete with elete programs. In the late 80's and early 90's AC and Belmont were as good as it got, and they were the top two teams in the area sometimes being seperated by only a few points at sectionals. If AC were in any other sectional they would have had 10 to 15 sectional titles. That would be like if Matre Dei were in Mishawakas sectional the past few years, saying that Matre Dei couldn't compete because they were a small school, when truth is they could compete they just had a bad draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 People would know that Schendel and McCray can run with the big dogs because of their results at the offseason tournaments. They have made their names at these tournaments and there is no way anyone would know of McCray if it was not for the offseason tournaments. I honestly am not worried about elite kids like them. As I said earlier, Andrew Howe wasn't highly recruited because he won a single class state tournament, but because of his success in national tournaments. One other example is a kid in Minnesota named Dylan Ness who is a top 20 recruit who has never won a state title. He is a top 20 recruit because of his success at national tournaments. What would happen with class wrestling is that like other sports, there would be more excitement for the kids and fans because their team and individuals would be competing later into the tournament series. I know how much our basketball team gets recognition after winning two sectionals in a row without beating a team with a winning record. They still cut the nets down, still celebrate and still get a trophy. Class basketball hasn't hurt our school at all because we would be lucky to win a game in sectional if it were single class. Does it really harm the kids or the community for them to become sectional champs in a classed system? Class wrestling will help small school programs that are struggling, the ACAC has some good programs, but they barely compete for sectional titles, let alone a spot at team state. Look at other small school conferences that are struggling, like the NECC. Would it hurt for those schools to get a state qualifier every other year or every couple years? Would those kids, coaches or community members shun the kids if it happened in a classed system? I will just leave you with this. I have "tested" quite a few of my friends from Ohio and its interesting what they say. I ask them one question, "what did you place at state?" I have never heard "DII 3rd" or "DI 6th," but always just heard the placement. Only after I ask what division do they tell me. That tells me that they really don't care about the division, they just know they got a medal, got recognized and are now in college wrestling because of their accomplishment that they are very proud of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duck_and_run Posted January 14, 2010 Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 Here is my problem with the idea that class wrestling would spread state titles out. The fact is big schools that were bad will still be bad, and small schools that are bad will still be bad. It just makes another level of dominate teams. The fact that it is class does not make non wrestling areas good. If you ask me it seems more like a coaches thing. I know everyone wants recognition, and from what I hear the school you help out with is very dedicated to offseason stuff and they work extremly hard. Just because you work hard doesn't mean state or sectional titles will come instantly. In the evansville sectional, Matre Dei beats out several bigger schools most year and earns sectional titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwrestler715 Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 This is just my opinion I am definitely not tying to further tension. I am a wrestler at a very small school in Southern IN. The enrollment of our high school is less than 300 and every year I have wrestler we have had between 6 and 9 kids on the team. I am a 3 time regional qualifier, and last year at semi-state I lost my state qualifying match by 2 points. It is my opinion, as a wrestler that is still currently competing, that the current system is effective. I'm from a small school, yes, but this has taught several of my teammates and myself included have learned that we have to work extra hard if we want to advance in post season. I believe this is true no matter what size school I choose to wrestle for. However, if at the end of the season my hard work pays off and I am the state champion. I will be glad to know that it is the entire state of IN that i am the champion of, and not just the small schools or the struggling programs. I am proud to be part of a system that tells wrestlers that it doesn't matter what size school you are from, if you have the skill and work ethic to be the best, step up and show us what you've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tskin Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Good post Sampson. You need to get with Bentz from Madison and get your "Keep Indiana Classless" swag! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Here is my problem with the idea that class wrestling would spread state titles out. The fact is big schools that were bad will still be bad, and small schools that are bad will still be bad. It just makes another level of dominate teams. The fact that it is class does not make non wrestling areas good. If you ask me it seems more like a coaches thing. I know everyone wants recognition, and from what I hear the school you help out with is very dedicated to offseason stuff and they work extremly hard. Just because you work hard doesn't mean state or sectional titles will come instantly. In the evansville sectional, Matre Dei beats out several bigger schools most year and earns sectional titles. If I were worried about personal glory as a coach, I would have been looking for a job as a head coach 5 years ago. The kids have accomplished a great deal these past few years, but no one outside our program appreciates what I have done for the kids or really cares. I never had to go back to Garrett after I turned down the offer to be a head coach in 2005. I could have moved on and applied for openings all over the area or continued coaching at Tri-State. I'm not one that needs coaching accolades to stroke my ego. Class wrestling is not about coaching egos, its about growing the sport at all levels, not just the big schools. If you think class sports is for coaching egos, thats great, but I tend to believe class sports has helped our football tournament grow and has rejuvenated interest in basketball at many schools. You can't tell me Triton would trade their state runner-up trophy last year in 1A for a sectional title in a single class. How do you know class wrestling won't increase interest in areas that are down? If more kids and teams start having success more people will want to be involved as fans, coaches or competitors. When I was in high school and we were mediocre the only people in the stands were parents, now friends and super fans follow us everywhere. Maybe it has a little bit to do with people liking to be associated with successful programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 This is just my opinion I am definitely not tying to further tension. I am a wrestler at a very small school in Southern IN. The enrollment of our high school is less than 300 and every year I have wrestler we have had between 6 and 9 kids on the team. I am a 3 time regional qualifier, and last year at semi-state I lost my state qualifying match by 2 points. It is my opinion, as a wrestler that is still currently competing, that the current system is effective. I'm from a small school, yes, but this has taught several of my teammates and myself included have learned that we have to work extra hard if we want to advance in post season. I believe this is true no matter what size school I choose to wrestle for. However, if at the end of the season my hard work pays off and I am the state champion. I will be glad to know that it is the entire state of IN that i am the champion of, and not just the small schools or the struggling programs. I am proud to be part of a system that tells wrestlers that it doesn't matter what size school you are from, if you have the skill and work ethic to be the best, step up and show us what you've got. First off, I don't expect a competitor to want class athletics. I have a couple questions for you. 1. Wouldn't it be cool if more than nine people in your school can learn those lessons you learned from wrestling? 2. Do teams in classed sports in your school have more than nine athletes on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duck_and_run Posted January 14, 2010 Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 y2 you are kind of making my points more clear as you continue to defend yourself. I mean everyone would like to have 9 or ten guys at state but the fact that your willing to sacrifice compitition to do it bothers me. There are tournements all year long when you can wrestle the level of your competition. Kids can get that joy through the right scheduling all season, but one time a year Indiana lets the best individuals go at it in a tournement format. It makes sense to let the best wrestlers get the best competition possible at least once a season. Some small schools have outstanding individuals and not so great teams, so the state tournement is one of the only places they get to see great competition. I am for not classing the state for these reasons. If you want great results for your team wrestle in tournements throughout the year and get that. The state tournement does its purposes and lets everyone have a shot in it where the best eventually wrestle the best big or small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 y2 you are kind of making my points more clear as you continue to defend yourself. I mean everyone would like to have 9 or ten guys at state but the fact that your willing to sacrifice compitition to do it bothers me. There are tournements all year long when you can wrestle the level of your competition. Kids can get that joy through the right scheduling all season, but one time a year Indiana lets the best individuals go at it in a tournement format. It makes sense to let the best wrestlers get the best competition possible at least once a season. Some small schools have outstanding individuals and not so great teams, so the state tournement is one of the only places they get to see great competition. I am for not classing the state for these reasons. If you want great results for your team wrestle in tournements throughout the year and get that. The state tournement does its purposes and lets everyone have a shot in it where the best eventually wrestle the best big or small. So you are saying you could care less about the future of this sport? You don't care that less and less kids get to experience this sport. Why do 39 other states class their wrestling? Is it really for coach's egos? I never knew this sport was all about stroking a coach's ego. No one can seem to ever answer the question of why other states class wrestling, I guess I finally got the answer, to stroke their coach's egos. I guess I really should probably retire from coaching because I'm not coaching for the right reasons anymore. I guess I just coach for my own personal glory and not for the kids anymore. Thanks for making me realize that, I appreciate it. That must be also why we class basketball, football, baseball, etc. I guess I will go up to our girl's basketball coach and ask him about stroking his ego b/c they can't run with the big dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdanteague Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 y2 you are kind of making my points more clear as you continue to defend yourself. I mean everyone would like to have 9 or ten guys at state but the fact that your willing to sacrifice compitition to do it bothers me. There are tournements all year long when you can wrestle the level of your competition. Kids can get that joy through the right scheduling all season, but one time a year Indiana lets the best individuals go at it in a tournement format. It makes sense to let the best wrestlers get the best competition possible at least once a season. Some small schools have outstanding individuals and not so great teams, so the state tournement is one of the only places they get to see great competition. I am for not classing the state for these reasons. If you want great results for your team wrestle in tournements throughout the year and get that. The state tournement does its purposes and lets everyone have a shot in it where the best eventually wrestle the best big or small. keep the faith brotha!! those other sports and states are for sissies that can't hang so they went to class sports. Same with the pinko tree hugging NCAA. Division 1, 2 and 3. Balderdash. Step up to the plate Trine and wrestle the MEN of Big 10 where you can truly see if you are good or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 I dont think that college sports are the same as high school in these arguments. In college they recruit atheletes at a certain level. The athelete, and the coach knows what level of kid they are getting. Its a choice. In high school you get what you get. This is why I am for classing the team portion of the tournament. To me its a fairly simple idea, to be the best team you need 14 guys, thus big schools are at an advantage. In the individual you need one individual. Thus no classing, the best man wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 College is classed based on the resources the school is willing to put into their sports programs. DI-lots of resources, DII-not as many, DIII- even less. High school is classed based on the resources are the number of students. It is a pretty comparable argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Yeah but in college its the institutions choice what they want to spend on Athletics, and the level of Athelete that they get. In high school you have no choice. So that is why Trine is not in the same league as Iowa, they choose not to put the same money into it. They also choose to be at the DIII level, which is not a bad thing, it is just their choice. High Schools on the other hand have no say in the number, or level of Athelete that they get. For the most part you get who you have no matter how much you put into athletics. It is not a choice of what level you want to be, but instead what you are given. Its the fact that colleges have a choice in where they are that to me makes the arguments different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scardy94 Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 keep the faith brotha!! those other sports and states are for sissies that can't hang so they went to class sports. Same with the pinko tree hugging NCAA. Division 1, 2 and 3. Balderdash. Step up to the plate Trine and wrestle the MEN of Big 10 where you can truly see if you are good or not. Duh...simply Duh! You are sounding as bad as manvswild and that's bad! :-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts