Y2CJ41 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 http://garrettwrestling.com/proof2009.html I updated the information with this year's data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boot Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Excellent data, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldManMason50 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I guess what this means is that Columbia City is the best school, by ratio..? Haha, nah I am kidding, great stats Y2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midget5589 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Wow, chesterton has only had 8 qualifiers the last 12 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC Computer Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Looking at that data I prefer the 3 class system since it puts Mater Dei in class AA rather than the same class as Adams Central There are a couple things I'd like to see if a class team tourney ever happens. One is the ability for schools to move up a class at their option. I think football has that option. The other is one I'd like to see applied to football classes, too. Whenever the schools classes are realigned I think all state champions since the previous alignment shuld be moved up one class for the next alignment period. It would only be for 2 years and may answer some of the public/private debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 This system will not be that thoughtful. If there are three systems every section will want to avoid matre dei. They are always competitive but I would venture to say they will stay in there own division. After all state titles are good for the recruitment process. there dynasty will continue only compared to today where they have competitive battles it will be a joke at the state finals. 20 + point blowouts the whole tournement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 This system will not be that thoughtful. If there are three systems every section will want to avoid matre dei. They are always competitive but I would venture to say they will stay in there own division. After all state titles are good for the recruitment process. there dynasty will continue only compared to today where they have competitive battles it will be a joke at the state finals. 20 + point blowouts the whole tournement. You are such a humanitarian for your efforts to keep Indiana classless. I will definitely nominate you for the next Nobel Peace Prize for your efforts. Sheridan dominates 1A football, does that mean we shouldn't have class football? How about Bishop Luers dominating 2A basketball, does that mean we shouldn't have class basketball? Its a pretty far stretch to suggest that just because ONE small school is good that there shouldn't be class wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 First off these teams you mention do not win the title every year. Secondly your same arguement could be use not to class wrestling. Just because some schools have quality programs doesn't mean we should class it. Matre dei wins the big devision on a consistant basis. If you split the classes it would be a race for second. Also if you think about it the same small schools would probably be in the finals every year. Programs that succeed always succeed. The last thing we need is more teams bringing 10 guys to state if were looking for parity in the sport we should start with supporting our own local wrestling programs. If we class individual all that will happen in our state is provide a bigger gap between teams. Some schools may bring 12 or 13 wrestlers to the state level instead of 10. This hurts every one. You want more parity the system we have now will eventually do thtat with community support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 First off these teams you mention do not win the title every year. Sheridan has won three of the last four state championships. They routinely beat 3A teams like its their job. Secondly your same arguement could be use not to class wrestling. Just because some schools have quality programs doesn't mean we should class it. Look at the size of the schools that are represented at state each year. Tell me something isn't similar in all of them in the SIZE of the school. Matre dei wins the big devision on a consistant basis. If you split the classes it would be a race for second. Just like in Ohio in DI and DII and that is hurting their wrestling how? Some DI teams have stepped to the plate and defeated St. Eds in duals this year and are knocking on the door to beating them in the state finals. Its not hurting their wrestling that is for sure. Also if you think about it the same small schools would probably be in the finals every year. Programs that succeed always succeed. The last thing we need is more teams bringing 10 guys to state if were looking for parity in the sport we should start with supporting our own local wrestling programs. Just like the same teams in football are always at regional and semi-state? That surely has hurt that sport huh? The cream will always rise to the top. The last thing we need is more teams bringing 10 guys to state if were looking for parity in the sport we should start with supporting our own local wrestling programs. The last thing we need is more enthusiasm for the sport at the small school level, right? It would be a travesty if you saw a resurgence of small school wrestling huh? That would horrible for the health of the sport for small schools to start actually caring about the sport, huh? If we class individual all that will happen in our state is provide a bigger gap between teams. Some schools may bring 12 or 13 wrestlers to the state level instead of 10. This hurts every one. You want more parity the system we have now will eventually do thtat with community support. You mean the gap in which there are 75% of the state qualifiers from big schools and 25% from the small schools? Can that gap really get any bigger? If you are a state qualifier you are 3X more likely to be from a big school. If you are a state qualifier there is a 60% chance you are from a school in the top 1/3 of enrollment. That is a pretty big gap and its not getting any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Well all I am saying is small schools like yorktown who brought 6 or 7 to state would bring 10 or 12 at the small school level who does that resurge? The big schools who brought ten in the current system may bring 12 at the other level. Both sides loose competition when we class the individual state. Football and basketball run is spurts more so then wrestling because wrestling is not established in schools like football and basketball. I will tell you that the small schools are closing the gap because it took them a little longer to start their programs up. Now that they are they are competitive at all levels. Matre Dei would smoke everyone for years in a smaller division. Its not like bad small schools would get better it just makes the top teams look better in both divisions. Parity does not come from classing the sport it just allows to divisions to be dominated. Imagine matre day when they had 10 staters they may have brung all 14 to small school individual state is that good for the sport? So the system won't be fixed is what I am saying. You have to have a better solution to have a change and the individual class system hurts everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hehateme1st Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I understand why people want class wrestling.....but look at the schools that had a large number of people going to state. Those schools like MD, LN, Mishawaka, Portage, Bellmont, Yorktown, Beech Grove, Peru, etc..... these schools all have great summer programs. When your kids are putting in time in the off season it shows when it comes around to in season. Do all the kids from smaller schools put in that effort. I am here to say NO because I wrestled at a small school and during the season they would come to practise and work hard but off season came and they did other things. There are some kids on the team that would but then you are not wrestling the best everyday. The coaches are the ones who have to get these kids into summer wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 What if those kids are playing baseball because their baseball team needs a 3rd baseman? What if the kid is running track because he's a great distance runner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 It happens like that everywhere a lot of coaches have off season stuff in the evenings to work arround the kids schedules. If you do not have that maybe you could try that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hehateme1st Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 So if someone plays baseball that awesome the still can go to differant tourneys and practises during the summer. They have all kinds of wrestling camps.....and we used to practise in our basement. Nothing to organized but still the more mat time the more successful you will be if its quality invested time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 Just like the wrestling coach lets the good baseball players to do baseball stuff during wrestling season right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Just like the wrestling coach lets the good baseball players to do baseball stuff during wrestling season right? Or the football coach allowing his players to attend pre-season tournaments, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hehateme1st Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Most kids when they are in high school might play 2 sports few play 3.........but thats up to the kid. Will the kids that play 2 sports be great at either maybe you have those kids that just are athletic but if most kids put in time at one sport will they be great much better chances. Not the person to tell someone to not play another sport.....allot of things actually help like football and baseball can help wrestler out with reaction time and differant areas. But mat time is like nothing else. How many D I, D II , or D III kids play 2 sports not a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 Have you ever coached or attended a small school? The numbers are extremely higher of multi-sport athletes at Garrett than at a school like say Lawrence North. At Garrett alone, we had six starters that are three sport athletes. We had six starters that are two sport athletes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Well big deal at least there staying fit. :'( :'( :'( I'm sorry its so hard for you. I mean with your regional training center you always talk about and all. You have more at your finger tips then most schools its your own fault if you loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Well big deal at least there staying fit. :'( :'( :'( I'm sorry its so hard for you. I mean with your regional training center you always talk about and all. You have more at your finger tips then most schools its your own fault if you loose. So he has done everything you suggest to build a program and yet they still are not close to winning a sectional and you still claim the system is fine and say it is his fault they "loose". Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 he has been there two years. It takes time Karl you should no that. Rome wasn't built in a day nad a wrestling program can not be either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 I have coached at Garrett for the past 7 years in some fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Well it could just take longer a good program may take 10 or 15 years to respond it takes getting the youth at very young ages. 5 years old are wher most the evansville kids start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Facts are stupid things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Yeah mock our greatest president. Voted on by the people. He has done more for our country then you have done for the sport of wrestling I garentee that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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