NickS Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Hope I don't get this topic banned by asking this, but isn't the high school Howe attended a small school? Pretty impressive for any freshman to win a Big 10 championship period, but with all the insurmountable negatives a small school athlete in Indiana faces makes it just absolutely incredible. The way I think the reasoning goes, he should not have been allowed to go D1. I do I know, I saw the same response. I'm just kind of disappointed that we've gone into another class debate when the thread starter was congratulating Indiana wrestling for having a successfull Big Ten tournament (the studs anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 What is incredible is that Div. 1 college coaches, wrestlers, and the deputy commisioner of the Big Ten who wrestled, along with 40+ states see the value/benefits of class sports yet we still have folks that think we should keep our antiquated system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Come on Y2! I was a small school wrestler that played three sports. I was an above average wrestler, but chose to focus on baseball. We all know that in regards to most every high school athlete, more practice/attention in a given sport will give rise to improvement in that sport. Had I wrestled more than just from Oct. to Feb. I probably would have progressed further in the tournament and been more successful overall! You're bending things people are saying. So we should just have kids at small schools specialize in one sport then, right? I mean how great could a football team be with 25 kids. How good would the wrestling team be with 10 kids, the basketball team be with 15 kids. How about the track team with 15 kids too. Or instead these kids could help out the other sports by participating and we could double the number of participants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 What is incredible is that Div. 1 college coaches, wrestlers, and the deputy commisioner of the Big Ten who wrestled, along with 40+ states see the value/benefits of class sports yet we still have folks that think we should keep our antiquated system. Come on now, what do those buffoons know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cewrestlingfan Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Ashton gave up football last fall because he wanted to focus on his wrestling. He decided that he was only going to be an average football player at best and had the potential to be a very good wrestler. So he made the decision to train for wrestling all year with taking a short break late in the summer. It was a matter of choice. All kids must make a choice that is best for them. If you do what you always did you can expect to get what you always got. What did the football team lose, say a special teamer? Ok, now lets say the four semi-state wrestlers I have don't play football this year and lets see what they would lose. Two starting defensive backs, two starting linebackers on defense. Starting fullback, running back and wide receiver on offense. So the football team would lose 4 starters from defense and three from offense if those kids didn' t play football. So now lets say as a coach I persuade these kids to give up football. Do you think the football coach will do the same for the kids that are wrestlers or will he continue to encourage the football players to wrestle? The same goes for other sports too. At a small school you cannot afford to horde athletes in just one sport. I really don't want to get into the limitations of kids in small schools have or don't have because there are advantages and disadvantages. All I am trying to say is if you want to make imrovements as a wrestler you are best served spending the extra time training in the off season. As a coach I would never persuade a kid to give up another sport because it is each kid's choice to decide what is best for himself. I think it is awesome if kids can excel at multiple sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Ashton gave up football last fall because he wanted to focus on his wrestling. He decided that he was only going to be an average football player at best and had the potential to be a very good wrestler. So he made the decision to train for wrestling all year with taking a short break late in the summer. It was a matter of choice. All kids must make a choice that is best for them. If you do what you always did you can expect to get what you always got. What did the football team lose, say a special teamer? Ok, now lets say the four semi-state wrestlers I have don't play football this year and lets see what they would lose. Two starting defensive backs, two starting linebackers on defense. Starting fullback, running back and wide receiver on offense. So the football team would lose 4 starters from defense and three from offense if those kids didn' t play football. So now lets say as a coach I persuade these kids to give up football. Do you think the football coach will do the same for the kids that are wrestlers or will he continue to encourage the football players to wrestle? The same goes for other sports too. At a small school you cannot afford to horde athletes in just one sport. I really don't want to get into the limitations of kids in small schools have or don't have because there are advantages and disadvantages. All I am trying to say is if you want to make imrovements as a wrestler you are best served spending the extra time training in the off season. As a coach I would never persuade a kid to give up another sport because it is each kid's choice to decide what is best for himself. I think it is awesome if kids can excel at multiple sports. What you are saying is kids that don't specialize in wrestling don't want to be good, plain and simple. I think all my kids want to be good, but the baseball team needs a centerfielder and leadoff batter. The football team needs a few linebackers too. The track team needs a pole vaulter and a shot putter. At the small school level the kids that play two or three sports are what makes those teams, not the one sport kids. My kids want to be good just like any other kid, but they are called into duty in other sports because of the lack of resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierHero? Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share Posted March 9, 2009 Come on Y2! I was a small school wrestler that played three sports. I was an above average wrestler, but chose to focus on baseball. We all know that in regards to most every high school athlete, more practice/attention in a given sport will give rise to improvement in that sport. Had I wrestled more than just from Oct. to Feb. I probably would have progressed further in the tournament and been more successful overall! You're bending things people are saying. So we should just have kids at small schools specialize in one sport then, right? I mean how great could a football team be with 25 kids. How good would the wrestling team be with 10 kids, the basketball team be with 15 kids. How about the track team with 15 kids too. Or instead these kids could help out the other sports by participating and we could double the number of participants. Kids should do what they desire to do! I said nothing about having them play one sport. If they want to play multiple sports for leisure/competition/or just because they like the sport, great, they are welcome to do so! We could probably all agree that in MOST cases (exceptions being great athletes), that if they wish to earn scholarship money to play that sport at the next level, they should focus on that sport. As stated, I was able to still play two other sports, but continued to focus on baseball the entire year and earn scholarship money for it at the small collegiate level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Come on Y2! I was a small school wrestler that played three sports. I was an above average wrestler, but chose to focus on baseball. We all know that in regards to most every high school athlete, more practice/attention in a given sport will give rise to improvement in that sport. Had I wrestled more than just from Oct. to Feb. I probably would have progressed further in the tournament and been more successful overall! You're bending things people are saying. So we should just have kids at small schools specialize in one sport then, right? I mean how great could a football team be with 25 kids. How good would the wrestling team be with 10 kids, the basketball team be with 15 kids. How about the track team with 15 kids too. Or instead these kids could help out the other sports by participating and we could double the number of participants. Kids should do what they desire to do! I said nothing about having them play one sport. If they want to play multiple sports for leisure/competition/or just because they like the sport, great, they are welcome to do so! We could probably all agree that in MOST cases (exceptions being great athletes), that if they wish to earn scholarship money to play that sport at the next level, they should focus on that sport. As stated, I was able to still play two other sports, but continued to focus on baseball the entire year and earn scholarship money for it at the small collegiate level. What is the percentage of kids that honestly get scholarship money to play a sport in college. Should we really do a sport for the sole purpose of getting money for college? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Y2 the great manipulator, will not miss on an opportunity to slam somebody or something that does not fall in line with his beliefs. Which if it's his beliefs, should be all beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 As a coach I would never persuade a kid to give up another sport because it is each kid's choice to decide what is best for himself. I think it is awesome if kids can excel at multiple sports. At small school you must actively persuade kids to participate in other sports for the good of the entire athletic department. Many kids will say the want to "specialize" because of a natural tendency to be lazy. That is the inequality between bigger schools and smaller schools. The average athlete at a bigger school has a much easier time "specializing" and improving at a faster rate than the average small school athlete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierHero? Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share Posted March 9, 2009 Come on Y2! I was a small school wrestler that played three sports. I was an above average wrestler, but chose to focus on baseball. We all know that in regards to most every high school athlete, more practice/attention in a given sport will give rise to improvement in that sport. Had I wrestled more than just from Oct. to Feb. I probably would have progressed further in the tournament and been more successful overall! You're bending things people are saying. So we should just have kids at small schools specialize in one sport then, right? I mean how great could a football team be with 25 kids. How good would the wrestling team be with 10 kids, the basketball team be with 15 kids. How about the track team with 15 kids too. Or instead these kids could help out the other sports by participating and we could double the number of participants. Kids should do what they desire to do! I said nothing about having them play one sport. If they want to play multiple sports for leisure/competition/or just because they like the sport, great, they are welcome to do so! We could probably all agree that in MOST cases (exceptions being great athletes), that if they wish to earn scholarship money to play that sport at the next level, they should focus on that sport. As stated, I was able to still play two other sports, but continued to focus on baseball the entire year and earn scholarship money for it at the small collegiate level. What is the percentage of kids that honestly get scholarship money to play a sport in college. Should we really do a sport for the sole purpose of getting money for college? If you were attentive enough to read my ENTIRE post, the very first thing that I said was that "Kids should do what they desire to do!... If they want to play multiple sports for leisure/competition/or just because they like the sport, great, they are welcome do so!" SLOW DOWN a bit on your response and absorb things. Your ignorance is being displayed to the fullest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Y2 the great manipulator, will not miss on an opportunity to slam somebody or something that does not fall in line with his beliefs. Which if it's his beliefs, should be all beliefs. I'd call him a manipulator anyway, not the great manipulator. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Come on Y2! I was a small school wrestler that played three sports. I was an above average wrestler, but chose to focus on baseball. We all know that in regards to most every high school athlete, more practice/attention in a given sport will give rise to improvement in that sport. Had I wrestled more than just from Oct. to Feb. I probably would have progressed further in the tournament and been more successful overall! You're bending things people are saying. So we should just have kids at small schools specialize in one sport then, right? I mean how great could a football team be with 25 kids. How good would the wrestling team be with 10 kids, the basketball team be with 15 kids. How about the track team with 15 kids too. Or instead these kids could help out the other sports by participating and we could double the number of participants. Kids should do what they desire to do! I said nothing about having them play one sport. If they want to play multiple sports for leisure/competition/or just because they like the sport, great, they are welcome to do so! We could probably all agree that in MOST cases (exceptions being great athletes), that if they wish to earn scholarship money to play that sport at the next level, they should focus on that sport. As stated, I was able to still play two other sports, but continued to focus on baseball the entire year and earn scholarship money for it at the small collegiate level. What is the percentage of kids that honestly get scholarship money to play a sport in college. Should we really do a sport for the sole purpose of getting money for college? If you were attentive enough to read my ENTIRE post, the very first thing that I said was that "Kids should do what they desire to do!... If they want to play multiple sports for leisure/competition/or just because they like the sport, great, they are welcome do so!" SLOW DOWN a bit on your response and absorb things. Your ignorance is being displayed to the fullest! You also said that if they want a scholarship they should specialize. Maybe you should reread your statement. I know many kids that would love to get a scholarship but cannot afford to specialize because the baseball team needs a centerfielder and the football team needs a two-way starter. Of course, lets tell these kids to specialize, because that is what is better for the WHOLE athletic department. Lets have a divided athletic department at a small school where you not only share athletes, but many times coaches too! That should be lots of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cewrestlingfan Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Ashton gave up football last fall because he wanted to focus on his wrestling. He decided that he was only going to be an average football player at best and had the potential to be a very good wrestler. So he made the decision to train for wrestling all year with taking a short break late in the summer. It was a matter of choice. All kids must make a choice that is best for them. If you do what you always did you can expect to get what you always got. What did the football team lose, say a special teamer? Ok, now lets say the four semi-state wrestlers I have don't play football this year and lets see what they would lose. Two starting defensive backs, two starting linebackers on defense. Starting fullback, running back and wide receiver on offense. So the football team would lose 4 starters from defense and three from offense if those kids didn' t play football. So now lets say as a coach I persuade these kids to give up football. Do you think the football coach will do the same for the kids that are wrestlers or will he continue to encourage the football players to wrestle? The same goes for other sports too. At a small school you cannot afford to horde athletes in just one sport. I really don't want to get into the limitations of kids in small schools have or don't have because there are advantages and disadvantages. All I am trying to say is if you want to make imrovements as a wrestler you are best served spending the extra time training in the off season. As a coach I would never persuade a kid to give up another sport because it is each kid's choice to decide what is best for himself. I think it is awesome if kids can excel at multiple sports. What you are saying is kids that don't specialize in wrestling don't want to be good, plain and simple. I think all my kids want to be good, but the baseball team needs a centerfielder and leadoff batter. The football team needs a few linebackers too. The track team needs a pole vaulter and a shot putter. At the small school level the kids that play two or three sports are what makes those teams, not the one sport kids. My kids want to be good just like any other kid, but they are called into duty in other sports because of the lack of resources. There is no doubt in my mind that those kids want to get better and they will. However, in my humble opinion, the kids that spend the extra time in the off season will make bigger improvements. As I said before that I think it is great when kids excel in multple sports and if that is what make them happy, even better. Each kid should make a choice for for thier own best interest first as it relates to athletics, whatever it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierHero? Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share Posted March 9, 2009 Come on Y2! I was a small school wrestler that played three sports. I was an above average wrestler, but chose to focus on baseball. We all know that in regards to most every high school athlete, more practice/attention in a given sport will give rise to improvement in that sport. Had I wrestled more than just from Oct. to Feb. I probably would have progressed further in the tournament and been more successful overall! You're bending things people are saying. So we should just have kids at small schools specialize in one sport then, right? I mean how great could a football team be with 25 kids. How good would the wrestling team be with 10 kids, the basketball team be with 15 kids. How about the track team with 15 kids too. Or instead these kids could help out the other sports by participating and we could double the number of participants. Kids should do what they desire to do! I said nothing about having them play one sport. If they want to play multiple sports for leisure/competition/or just because they like the sport, great, they are welcome to do so! We could probably all agree that in MOST cases (exceptions being great athletes), that if they wish to earn scholarship money to play that sport at the next level, they should focus on that sport. As stated, I was able to still play two other sports, but continued to focus on baseball the entire year and earn scholarship money for it at the small collegiate level. What is the percentage of kids that honestly get scholarship money to play a sport in college. Should we really do a sport for the sole purpose of getting money for college? If you were attentive enough to read my ENTIRE post, the very first thing that I said was that "Kids should do what they desire to do!... If they want to play multiple sports for leisure/competition/or just because they like the sport, great, they are welcome do so!" SLOW DOWN a bit on your response and absorb things. Your ignorance is being displayed to the fullest! You also said that if they want a scholarship they should specialize. Maybe you should reread your statement. I know many kids that would love to get a scholarship but cannot afford to specialize because the baseball team needs a centerfielder and the football team needs a two-way starter. Of course, lets tell these kids to specialize, because that is what is better for the WHOLE athletic department. Lets have a divided athletic department at a small school where you not only share athletes, but many times coaches too! That should be lots of fun. You're damn right I said that if they desire an athletic scholarship, they should specialize! That is often times what it takes to EARN one. Poor small school kids for having to decide what sport to play, or not to play for that matter! Get over it, there are tons of small schools all over the state that feel the "drain" from spreading athletes over a few sports. The interesting thing is that you are a coach, in a position to switch to another school if you so CHOOSE. Why don't you just go to a big school so that you can stop complaining about how hard it is for small schools! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 You're damn right I said that if they desire an athletic scholarship, they should specialize! That is often times what it takes to EARN one. Poor small school kids for having to decide what sport to play, or not to play for that matter! Get over it, there are tons of small schools all over the state that feel the "drain" from spreading athletes over a few sports. The interesting thing is that you are a coach, in a position to switch to another school if you so CHOOSE. Why don't you just go to a big school so that you can stop complaining about how hard it is for small schools! How have 40+ states figured out how to: 1. get small school kids exposure to colleges and potential scholorships 2. discourage specialization 3. not feel the drain of spreading athletes 4. keep highly motivated coaches at small schools I bet you know the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 You're damn right I said that if they desire an athletic scholarship, they should specialize! That is often times what it takes to EARN one. Poor small school kids for having to decide what sport to play, or not to play for that matter! Get over it, there are tons of small schools all over the state that feel the "drain" from spreading athletes over a few sports. The interesting thing is that you are a coach, in a position to switch to another school if you so CHOOSE. Why don't you just go to a big school so that you can stop complaining about how hard it is for small schools! I stay at Garrett because I like the school and everything about it. I have been at a bigger school, one of 2000+ kids almost 4X the size of Garrett and did not enjoy coaching there as much as I do at Garrett. I coach there because I enjoy seeing and knowing the kids since they were literally babies. One of my wrestlers this year, I can remember seeing him when he first came home from the hospital as a baby. I love the small school atmosphere for athletics and have developed a bond with not only the wrestlers but kids in other sports that have come to know me as a coach. The big school atmosphere is not for me, but if I were to move on there are two schools I would choose in the area, one is a 4A school the other a 5A. I have seen the time and hard work the kids have put in and they are facing an uphill battle every day when it come to athletics. Its absurd to think that it is perfectly fine to class sports like football, baseball, basketball, etc and not class wrestling. Class wrestling will give kids much more opportunities to be noticed earlier in their careers by potential colleges. I want to see the kids have an equal playing field in ALL sports not just some. To state these kids don't want to be good because they play other sports or just don't work hard enough is ludicrous. Telling or advising kids to specialize is not the way to get better wrestlers. You will lose more than you ever will gain by doing that. If I told the kids on the team to either specialize or not wrestle, there would be about 5 kids on the wrestling team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cewrestlingfan Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I would love to continue this highly productive conversation, however I need to go pick up my kid from school and take him to Indianapolis to train at CIA. I hope we can find a solution that makes everyone happy some day. I will just settle for doing whatever makes my son happy for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macdaddy Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 These are all entertaining posts, but I think were losing sight that Andrew Howe is special. I've watched this kid since he was 11. He comes from a wrestling family, he traveled all over not just to wrestle, but to train. He used to come to Portage 2X a week to work with Coach P's Region Elite. He drove to Illinois 2X & 3X a week to train at Bormet's Overtime. He made the trip to Vega's on many occasions. If there was a training opportunity, he took it. Running, lifting & wrestling everyday! He is truly work-a-holic. A machine. He may have alot of god given talent, but he is training monster. Anyway back to the subject, it is nice to see our Indiana wrestlers so well represented. Angel, Reece, Andrew, Alex and all the other who don't get the publicity but are working hard to the state on the map. Thanks to all of you, we are proud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I would love to continue this highly productive conversation, however I need to go pick up my kid from school and take him to Indianapolis to train at CIA. I hope we can find a solution that makes everyone happy some day. I will just settle for doing whatever makes my son happy for now. Would the school your kid goes to be classified as big or small??? Sorry couldn't resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenadier2012 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 How have 40+ states figured out how to: 1. get small school kids exposure to colleges and potential scholorships 2. discourage specialization 3. not feel the drain of spreading athletes 4. keep highly motivated coaches at small schools I bet you know the answer I love how easy it is to manipulate statistics, first of all there aren't 40+ states with class wrestling. Second of all, of the states with one class over fifty percent of them are in the bottom half of the most populous states in the country and the ones that are in the top half (California, Texas, New Jersey, and Indiana) repeatedly produce studs at the collegiate level. Also, on the discouragement of specialization topic, that can be felt at any school regardless of size as long as one sport, usually football, dominates, which is the case at many big schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoilerUp Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Great job to Andrew winning as a freshman in the toughest conference in the nation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 How have 40+ states figured out how to: 1. get small school kids exposure to colleges and potential scholorships 2. discourage specialization 3. not feel the drain of spreading athletes 4. keep highly motivated coaches at small schools I bet you know the answer I love how easy it is to manipulate statistics, first of all there aren't 40+ states with class wrestling. Second of all, of the states with one class over fifty percent of them are in the bottom half of the most populous states in the country and the ones that are in the top half (California, Texas, New Jersey, and Indiana) repeatedly produce studs at the collegiate level. Also, on the discouragement of specialization topic, that can be felt at any school regardless of size as long as one sport, usually football, dominates, which is the case at many big schools. Umm, yes there are exactly nine states with single class wrestling: Indiana, California, New Jersey, Texas, Hawaii, Delaware, Kentucky, Arkansas and Vermont. Mississippi does not sanction wrestling. Arkansas just stated sanctioning wrestling last year and Texas is celebrating their 10th year of sanctioning wrestling this year. So to say all of these one class states are below average is without knowing the whole truth. More states with class wrestling are in the top 25% of top wrestling states than single class states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 How have 40+ states figured out how to: 1. get small school kids exposure to colleges and potential scholorships 2. discourage specialization 3. not feel the drain of spreading athletes 4. keep highly motivated coaches at small schools I bet you know the answer I love how easy it is to manipulate statistics, first of all there aren't 40+ states with class wrestling. Second of all, of the states with one class over fifty percent of them are in the bottom half of the most populous states in the country and the ones that are in the top half (California, Texas, New Jersey, and Indiana) repeatedly produce studs at the collegiate level. Also, on the discouragement of specialization topic, that can be felt at any school regardless of size as long as one sport, usually football, dominates, which is the case at many big schools. 1. 40+ states have classed sports, Indiana is one of the few states that isn't consistant. 2. Specialization may be felt at large schools but it kills programs at small schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Just to add a little more information, Texas is one class however their governing body UIL does not allow private schools to compete so all of their religious and prep schools are not a part of the one class champion. Most of the better known wrestlers from Texas come out these private schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts