fire77 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 here is a problem i see with the system and the IHSAA. a couple of years back ( 2-3) i read an article about a school that had just won the state championship. one of the players was a freshman that was interviewed by the local paper and she said she was in a certain school district but her club coach ( who worked in a different district than the one she was in) had talked to her and her parents and convinced them it would be better for her to go to his high school instead of the one in the district she lived in for chances at state championships and scholarships. i would think this is "actual" recruiting, not just parents sending a child to a school they think is better. the ihsaa was made aware of this by someone in that district and decided not to take any action. apparently her own quote of being recruited and going to a school because of it were not enough for the ihsaa to act on. i have read on this thread and others that "everyone" should just follow the rules". WHAT rules since it is apparent to me that the rules are different. the ihsaa has acted on pictures sent to them by a third party and complaints by phone calls ( according to some threads on this site) , yet they did not act on the person in questions own staements. i am sure this is not the only case but since i do not reads all the newspapers form around the state I do not hear all of them. if the ihsaa would be consistant with the rules i agree they should be followed but if they cannot be consistant they should eliminate any rules they do not follow completely or change them so they would follow there own rules. i am sure this does only apply to students moving, but that is the situations most likely to make the newspapers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Midget5589 I agree with Mr. Dolly, except when it comes to "Monkey Business". Minding my own business "implies" I should turn a blind eye,turn a deaf ear and keep my mouth shut when people are moving around against the rules. Most people can't just afford to move around when they find their schools potential to give their child some kind of athletic boost is limited. As a result of this, people do things like give out fake addresses or give a divorced parents address or a host of other tricks that are currently being used. Most people in the wrestling community know what is going on, especially the coaches, and take the "Who Cares" attitude, which just promotes other forms of cheating. Therfore we have a deteorating system which promotes the idea of "He who Cheats Best wins. manvswild1 I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion this was aimed at catholic schools. You are right things will never be totally equal. But playing fair and square is a noble cause to support. Catholic schools play within the rules. That is key to the integrity of the sport. The cheating in recruiting is what I am pointing out. There is an unhealthy obsession with winning that has promoted cheating as-- OK. Just do not get caught. There is no whining. Just pointing out the obvious for anyone who has not seen it yet. "Civility and Equity, brick by brick we can build integrity." Oscar fire77 You have made a very keen observation and point. It would be interesting to see what would happen, if the IHSAA just backed off the recruiting rules and made it a free for all. We would probably see some form of semi-professional recruiting as in college were money would talk. Like I said before there is an unhealthy obsession with winning within the high school sports culture. The programs who are consistently getting to "Team" State are indeed recruiting. Some legally through loopholes some illegally. If you want to get to Team State you may have to bend the rules. This may compromise your own integrity. I choose not to compromise mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Not every team down at team state has recruited and to say that is ridiculous some just have years of quality programs. Face it the good teams are good cause they have always had good programs good coaches good kids. A lot of these teams have great genes too. Thier fathers were state champions and so on and so forth. How many mcginly's are there, how many bakers, how many escobedos, excetra exctra excetra. Everyone wants there to be something bad with the system cause they can't win. Maybe its about coaching and not recruiting. If you go to the D1 level, basketball for instance, good recruiting doesnt mean good teams look at iu. Meanwhile coaches can be successful even when they tranfer programs. Take a good look in the mirror and if your squad is not winning maybe it has a lil to do with you. Quit placing blame every where. This whole site is filled with people who want class wrestling and want wrestle backs and blah blah blah. Good teams are always going to be good, not cause of size not cause of recruiting, and not even for there wrestlers athletism. Its because the communitys support wrestling more then basketball. Its because when they grow up they want to be on a mat. When the community supports the team wrestling programs are great for long times look at Matre Dei or Adam Central. So again its whinning. So no excuses were all tired of it. Integrity fyi is standing by your results good or bad and not making excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 so its the coaches fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Its not anyones fault but if I had to place blame it would be the communities. Its not usully their fault its more just how people grew up. The complants about the coaches was just because everyone is complaining but the system is fine. If people step up it may take ten or twenty years, but they can help to get the community closer to be a wrestling powerhouse. Youth programs and off season wrestling help in big ways that some schools just do not have. Its not about a schools size or anything of that nature its about the community coming together to make it a quality program. Look at team state, the gym is packed with fans and a lot of those schools have that kind of envolvement at all home meets. You can see their team pride and point them out at individual state. Its what the familys want to do. They want to have seccess with wrestling like most teams have with football or basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Not every team down at team state has recruited and to say that is ridiculous some just have years of quality programs. Face it the good teams are good cause they have always had good programs good coaches good kids. A lot of these teams have great genes too. Thier fathers were state champions and so on and so forth. How many mcginly's are there, how many bakers, how many escobedos, excetra exctra excetra. Everyone wants there to be something bad with the system cause they can't win. Maybe its about coaching and not recruiting. If you go to the D1 level, basketball for instance, good recruiting doesnt mean good teams look at iu. Meanwhile coaches can be successful even when they tranfer programs. Take a good look in the mirror and if your squad is not winning maybe it has a lil to do with you. Quit placing blame every where. This whole site is filled with people who want class wrestling and want wrestle backs and blah blah blah. Good teams are always going to be good, not cause of size not cause of recruiting, and not even for there wrestlers athletism. Its because the communitys support wrestling more then basketball. Its because when they grow up they want to be on a mat. When the community supports the team wrestling programs are great for long times look at Matre Dei or Adam Central. So again its whinning. So no excuses were all tired of it. Integrity fyi is standing by your results good or bad and not making excuses. You are not seeing the whole picture here. I could get very specific here with at least five of the eight teams that made it to team state. They are not going to admit it. Like I said some are legal loopholes and other are simply trying to get an advantage any way they can. The recruiting or searching for wrestling talent to move into your school district (same Thing) is a "must do" if you want to compete for team state honors. There are many other things you would have to be willing to do to compete as a team also. What we have is operation in the grey areas of the rules.There is a lot of lacking integrity in all of high school sports and there is also a lot of integrity. I am just plugging on the side of good ethics and high integrity. The wheels of recruiting are going on as we speak. I know one thing nothing that is immoral or unethical will stop if we do not expose it for what it is and get back on track. Wrestling and all sport is a tool to teach and develop our kids into responsible adults. Thinkers and leaders first not Wrestlers. That said you do make some good and valid points that I would not argue with. I am just shedding light on the subject of how to compete as a team if you are willing to compromise some of your principles. As you mentioned hard work and commitment are major components also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Well you have a voice and seem to be very vocal that violaions have occured. If your this attomit about the situation then why don't you state what you know. I think a lot of time good wrestlers come to schools for pure reason with lots of integrity as you say and by word of mouth rumors make it seem as though something illegal has occured. I can say almost anything and people may believe me but unless there is proof its just rumors to me. If thats not happening then people are scewing the facts to make it seem like it. So by all means enlighten the rest of the state on why your team is being cheated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 figured this was the right place to post this Any one wishing to transfer schools for athletic reasons please fill out this short questionaire at the link below, be sure to indicate which school you would like to attend so the proper people can arrange for your living arrangements thank you! www.indianahswrestlingrecruits.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Well you have a voice and seem to be very vocal that violaions have occured. If your this attomit about the situation then why don't you state what you know. I think a lot of time good wrestlers come to schools for pure reason with lots of integrity as you say and by word of mouth rumors make it seem as though something illegal has occured. I can say almost anything and people may believe me but unless there is proof its just rumors to me. If thats not happening then people are scewing the facts to make it seem like it. So by all means enlighten the rest of the state on why your team is being cheated. You should ask the guy who started this post. He probably knows more than I do. I did not say I was being cheated. I said I would have to cheat and compromise some of my other principles to effectively compete with some progams. My team is already competitve without the "Monkey Business". That is done through some of the other things you mentioned to achieve success in this sport. Hard work, good coaches, great supportive communities, as I said I agree with you on many points. It takes many bricks to build a solid foundation and wrestling house. Cheating is simply a defective brick. We need to chunk it !! If I had my way I would probably move to Evansville and become a Wildcat. They have the stongest community support of anyone in my book, but home is here and that is were I will stay. Close to family. You should also check IHSAA rule on contact with prospective athletes(MOVE INS etc.). Like I said some grey areas here. Some of this is just about ethics and some is about legal issues. The two tend to overlap. Don't be afraid of the "light" which represents the truth be afraid of the darkness that draws us to be lesser men. Fabio... Fabio ...Fabio... Are you trying to tell us something? Your in College now!! Read the IHSAA rules and see if the shoe fits! ;D...... 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I have heard stories of catholic football players being bussed an hour and a half to attend thier school, but a lot of these stories tend to be fabricated. Sometimes the dark which you talk about is actually blackend by rumoured things. If the school offers better opportunities for a student why should we step in there way. I mean come on if i lived in the region i would turn my tail and get my kids out of there. haaahaa. Face it these teams down at state are just better programs. This being said all teams can be more competitive if they work hard enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Manvswild1 I agree with you that the teams that get to state are better programs. That does not mean that they are not bending the rules to give themselves an edge. If I were going to give out any info or names, I would make an appointment with the IHSAA. This is merely a discussin board to raise the level of awareness. I would not try anyone here. To make my point, here is an example in professional sports: You have heard of Alex Rodriguez and Mark Maguire. Did they need to use steroids to be superstar athletes? They were already "just plain better than everyone else." Why did they use steroids? To get an edge. They compromise their own principles because they were intoxicated by the power of sports success. I am not beyond this intoxication. We all fight these deamons. So far I am winning and my kids are better for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I want to for the record say I am not for recruiting at all really, but most of the time this is probably for reasons other then a coach saying hey our child should go to my school. I would imagine the parents seek out the schools to better their childs chances at either state or in the educational services. Either way I have no problem with it as long as thier is no coaches envolved in the recruiting. I mean lets get real you want whats best for your kid and a lot of parents will do anything for that. So I have no problem with a parent wanting to take their child to a school based on any reason at all and I don't believe the coaches seek out the parents of these children. Im just tired of everyone looking for a way to blame something. If there are two pizza places close to each other and i perfer the one just a lil farther away im still going to make the trip cause the end result will be better for me and my family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhotrider Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Well said Awood. We have a daughter who graduated with an4.09 gpa and also got a tennis scholarship. Why did she get the tennis scholarship? Because they wanted a smart kid on there tennis team. She was an honorable mention academic all american last year. no way that girl is related to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Who is for it, I am one that is for it. All of the power house progams does recruiting at some level. Cathedral has done it for years, others to. If someone is a great wrestler and they live where there school has bad coaching I doubt you would want you're child to attend. You want to go where is best for the wrestler, to better there future. For instance Sliga lives in Nobelsville never wrestled CYO but I heard is going to attend Cathedral next year same with Harvey I don't know if either one is even Catholic. But I do not see a problem with it. I had to move a mile down the road so my son could go to Perry instead of Manual. If I lost my job or something and had to go to the house I own in IPS my son would loose a great deal by going to Manual. Or pay for a school like Roncalli or Cathedral I would do the samething I would pay the money before I take a step back with Manual. I wish there was a way that when the child got into H.S they could choose what school they would like to attend. That is just my opinion. We all wants best for our kids an education is top priority but having athletics on you're college application helps out. No knock to Manual or there wrestling staff, I just see kids from that area dropping out of school everyday, that is all I was getting at. And in the beginning this is how it all started................................................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooke Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Maybe this has been mentioned but I thought the rules have changed where a student and there family could choose whatever school they wanted as long as it is approved before the school year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Wrestling Fanpage Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 I heard about this as well is it true, starting this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I heard about this as well is it true, starting this year? This is just wishful thinking right now. Yes this has been tossed around.This was possibly discussed in some legislative committee and reported in the media. That is just my guess. Nothing, to my knowledge, has been slated for legislation. Keep your fingers crossed or lobby your state rep, but for now you would have to pay tuition if you do not live within the district and get approval from the school corporation you want to attend. You would also have to clear IHSAA regulations if you are already in high school and want to participate in sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mockdad79 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I was told incoming freshmen could go to a school of their choice (tuition free) but would have to remain there through there high school years. Not sure of any other details on this, other than it had something to do with the new property tax system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I was told incoming freshmen could go to a school of their choice (tuition free) but would have to remain there through there high school years. Not sure of any other details on this, other than it had something to do with the new property tax system? I spoke to Department of Education Information Bureau. From what I understand, this is just rumor. Like I said and you are stating it is just talk. You have heard the same thing everyone else has heard without any supporting data or evidence. Hence .... Rumor. This is what a lot of people would like see happen which is "wishful thinking". MY guess... It is in backroom discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 my link is fixed, if your not happy with your school go here and fill out your form! figured this was the right place to post this Any one wishing to transfer schools for athletic reasons please fill out this short questionaire at the link below, be sure to indicate which school you would like to attend so the proper people can arrange for your living arrangements thank you! www.indianahswrestlingrecruits.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 my link is fixed, if your not happy with your school go here and fill out your form! figured this was the right place to post this Any one wishing to transfer schools for athletic reasons please fill out this short questionaire at the link below, be sure to indicate which school you would like to attend so the proper people can arrange for your living arrangements thank you! www.indianahswrestlingrecruits.org Fabio you look FAB-ULOUS !!!!!!!! You learn that in College ?? DOH !! You might learn more if you could read what Homer is saying over to the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 yah i did learn that in college : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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